要求摩尔门新闻编辑室和埃里克·霍金斯(Eric Hawkins)

约翰·德林 博客, 摩门教, 著作 26条留言

埃里克·霍金斯致摩门新闻室和埃里克·霍金斯(LDS教堂公共事务部媒体关系高级经理)的笔记,

It has been confirmed to me by multiple sources that over 的past few days and weeks you have been attempting to directly seek corrections from news outlets who have reported that my public support of 奥丹女子, same-sex marriage, and my refusal to censor 摩门教徒的故事podcast were important factors in 的LDS Church’决定为我寻求一个纪律委员会(取而代之的是选择集中于我对某些LDS教会真相主张的公开表达的怀疑)。

我要在这封信中包含我2014年8月7日与利益攸关总统布莱恩·金会面的节录,我们逐行回顾了他于2014年8月7日给我的来信,解释了他对我保持良好会员资格的要求。站立,并避免纪律委员会。

  • Regarding 的censorship of 摩门教徒的故事podcast, 的following exchange occurred:

    布莱恩·金(Bryan King): You could go back look at your numerous podcasts and know 的ones you think are controversial or not.
    约翰·德林:因此,请删除所有有争议的情节。
    布莱恩·金(Bryan King): Yes. That would be 的thing to do.
    约翰·德林: 你是这个意思吗?
    布莱恩·金(Bryan King):嗯,我不想以任何形式或文字出现,这就是我所说的,因为我希望您提出自己的证词,以使我们能够解决您的问题….”

  • Regarding my public support of 奥丹女子:

    约翰·德林:““停止宣传支持学说的团体或组织”是什么意思(指金在2014年8月7日的来信)?”
    布莱恩·金(Bryan King): “I think that’s inherent, you know those, those that would be supporting of 奥丹女子.”

  • 关于我对同性婚姻的公开支持:

    布莱恩·金(Bryan King): “Same-sex marriage is not in harmony with 的teachings of 的church. So if you come out openly in support of [same-sex marriage], that is a problem.”

While I interpret your attempt to focus on selective church teachings I have at times publicly doubted (e.g., anthropomorphic God, orthodox interpretations of 的atonement, 的“one true church” doctrine found in D&C 1:30),我要指出 自2006年以来,我一直对这些教义感到怀疑…。没有事先纪律委员会的电话。我还要指出,无数的摩门教记者,学者,博客和播客,例如那些为 共同同意, 时报& Seasons, 理性信念, 对话杂志, 太阳石杂志, 格雷格·科福德(Greg Kofford)图书, 宗教新闻社, 感伤 和  给CES总监的信 have publicly expressed similar doubts and concerns over 的years, with no summons to a disciplinary council.

I would politely request that you please cease to attempt such corrections in 的future, as I believe that they are directly misleading 的LDS Church membership and general public as to 的main reasons why I am being summoned to a disciplinary council.  If you or 的general public require additional information regarding my August 7, 2014 meeting with President King, please feel free to inquire and I will send you 的records I have.

真诚的
约翰·德林

 

 

评论 26

  1. Why would Church HQ be seeking corrections of press reports related to a local disciplinary council? I though 的church left such disciplinary issues entirely in 的hands of local leaders. How would it know what was said?

    1. 是啊–很多人认为– –涉及到总局,并且’我希望免除责任的部分原因。一世’我只是埃斯孔迪多(Escondido)的一个小老头,我做不到’t help but know what’s going on. How could 的General Authorities not know? And how could they resist having an influence to save embarrassment for 的organization?

  2. It’s a strange line for them to be walking. First they claim that 所有 decisions are done at 的local level and they have no control over that. Then they state that they know 的reasons for 的council and those reasons are different from 的ones conveyed in a direct one-on-one meeting to 的subject of 的council. That seems terribly inconsistent to me.

  3. Truly remarkable, disgusting behavior on 的part of The Church!! Keep “shining a light” in 的dark places. The 老鼠 in suits are really squirming; and rightly so! So much for “Choosing 的Right”和基督化的行为!

  4. There is something very wrong with 的LDS church that seems to be rotten at 的core and it’向外腐蚀。

    I think they want to blame people like Kate Kelly and 约翰·德林 for 的down sizing of 的church and they are trying to blame anyone and anything they can….except 的church.

  5. Calling out 的head spinmeister is a good thing, John. If they do that for you they’会为任何人做,它不应该’t be done at 所有.

  6. I’m so glad John has been open every step of 的way. The church is caught red handed here. If any good comes from this, it will be that members can openly support ordain women and gay marriage and not be disciplined. Thanks John. Sorry you have to be 的fall guy for improvementmenrs in 的church.

  7. John, at 的beginning of 的court proceedings, make it absolutely clear to 的assembled judges, that in 的interests of yourselves as 的accused, propriety and public confidence, you intend to record 的deliberations.
    如果被拒绝,请您指定的代表担任抄写员。
    If this is also declined, respectfully withdraw yourselves and announce their refusal of your reasonable requests to 的awaiting public and media.

  8. 谁在这里负责?目前谁在做决定“for 的Church”?再看看长老橡树& Christofferson in 的TribTalk interview –困惑的,说教的奥克斯,尴尬的克里斯托弗森。这毁了他们的主意吗?

    By 的same token, who is giving Eric Hawkins his marching orders, or is he freelancing (at this point entirely possible)?

    To this day 的angry, paranoid spirit of Ezra Taft Benson floats over this institution. We’re still fighting 的“Communists” though that’不再是我们所说的了。

  9. 我喜欢约翰及其所作所为。一世’ve been listening to him for many many years and appreciate his work and efforts. I also see how 的church is trying to make a private matter public, and it’s trying to cover bases and do 的best they can. I don’t think it’s about “rats” in dark places and 所有 of that, but I don’t have an axe to grind, which is seems that this story is bring out a lot of anti sentiments and exmormons are having a hay-day. As 的Great Rodney said “Can’t we 所有 get along?”

  10. The church is no different from a corporation. When a CEO steps down, 的reason given to news outlets is that he/she wanted to spend more time with family or something similar. We seldom get 的inside story of what actually went down. The church is run like a business in this fashion and they will do whatever they have to in order to conceal 的undesirable details.

    我不穿’t understand is why 的church isn’t forthcoming about what it actually takes to be excommunicated. If 的actual reasons that a court being held for Dehlin are that he supports gay marriage and 奥丹女子, why wouldn’t 的church just state that in a manner everyone understands? If it means losing members, then so be it. It’s like 的church wants to have its cake (tithing $) and eat it to by intentionally giving vague answers to questions about why someone is close to losing his membership.

  11. 有趣的是,一旦人们清楚地意识到问题并在知识的果实中扎根,然后怀着虔诚而真诚的灵魂回头读摩尔门书,您会清楚地看到,这警告着少数几个选择要当心教会本身的确切身份。在他的名字中,为受膏者提供的金钱和大笔生意比他差。荒唐的是,在LDS教堂顶部强大的地方的人坚持要在火车腐烂的同时驾驶火车’英勇的忠实成员代表真理和公义而离开。确实是最后的日子…如果发生战争,它仍在继续…。让善良的人们醒来,并发现这是一个人为做的事,与上帝的旨意相去甚远。“耶和华称他的子民为锡安,因为他们一心一意,居住在公义中。”忠实的圣徒在财务上挣扎但无论如何都要付出代价,却不是正义的幻想填补了最高层的人的口袋,反而把他们的一生都捐献给了以上议院名义在口袋里撒谎的谎言。更加坚定地忠于世界的主人而不是宇宙的主人。给每个人自己。如果这是上议院教堂,他们将向其开放一切’成员并公开谈论所有主题,甚至多年来都以自己的方式拥有错误。直到那时…我将一如既往地坚持正义,并不惜一切代价避免加入联盟。

  12. 因此,埃里克·霍金斯(Eric Hawkins)只是一个过分热心的LDS教会员工,试图为自己取名吗 ….ooops!), or is he merely an obedient LDS Church employee doing what he is told, and what is expected of him? Either way, it strengthens 的image of a Big Brother church that monitors its members, and goes to 的nth degree to constantly manage its image.

    Once, again, 的Church seems to be focusing on 的“wise as serpents” part, and ignoring 的“harmless as doves”部分。在我们开始怀疑它们是否不只是一串蛇之前,这种情况还能持续多久?通过他们的作品…

    对于那些抓住并带给约翰的人’s attention we are 所有 in debt. Thank you.

  13. Your desperate attempt to make this about your LGBT stance and not your apostasy amazes me. You are 的influencing 的narrative, as 的church has tried to keep this private. You create press releases and use liberal atheist journalists who love to attack 的church. The church should have every right to defend it’职位和纪律成员。没有纪律就没有秩序。

    1. 一定是关于约翰的’s LGBT stance, for John clearly follows Christ far more then 的leaders of 的Church ever have. They have no room or right to judge John. But that’s 的problem. The Church obviously doesn’t seem to like people who really follow Christ and thus who can see and call 的Church out on their hypocrisy, errors and evils.

      那些学习基督的人’的教导知道基督也支持‘Ordain Women’, for Christ was 的one who taught women’s total equality with men in 所有 things, by his teaching 的Golden Rule & love, which is 的basis of everything.

      那不是’拒绝尊重妇女的基督’s power and equal right to 的Priesthood and to equal leadership positions in 的Church, home, society, etc., it was prideful men, who of course just claimed God told them that.

      所以’s clear to true followers of Christ, that 的leaders of 的Church are 的true apostates who don’t really live 的Gospel despite their ‘lip service’, and thus it’s impossible for them to pull 的apostate card on John.

    2. And John has every right to defend himself that label him an apostate. Has he lied and been as deceptive as 的organization that is trying to shut him up? Not to my knowledge. Of course he creates press releases to give his side of 的story instead of letting them spin their own.

      它不会’令我惊讶的是,一百年来LDS成员将听到“faith promoting” story on how 约翰·德林 left 的church and was excommunicated because his wife got into a dispute over a milk incident with another woman. Oh an by 的way, why does it matter that that someone is liberal or atheist? You use those words as if they are negative. Why must that be?

      BB ,我’m not sure if you are serious in your posts or just trolling but if 的majority of active members are anything like you, 的Church will continue to head down 的path it’s already on. God have mercy on it for 的truth will have none.

  14. Ever feel like you are Franz Kafka in 的Trial? The ever changing reasons for their actions. They have lost 的PR war and are trying to reverse engineer history just like Joe Smith did. Keep telling 的truth about this corrupt Corporation!

  15. Nobody from 的LDS church (ecclesiastical leaders, PR reps, etc.) should be commenting on or publicly discussing any information regarding John’驱逐出境。从他们自己给约翰的信中,“Disciplinary councils are 神圣 ecclesiastical proceedings and are intended to be strictly confidential…I am concerned that 的sacredness and confidentiality of your disciplinary counsel be fully respected and protected.”

    Any information that comes from 的Mormon Newsroom regarding 的excommunication is a breach of 的sacredness and 的confidentiality that their own document claims to want to protect.

  16. 我感谢约翰·德林’的努力和勇气。在我的岁月中,他给了这个75岁的老人更多的生命,也许是我生命中甚至更长的生命。我今天为您的利益祈祷,德林弟兄— even tho I’我不再确定祷告了您已经验证了我多年以来发表的意见和关注,谢谢!

  17. It’s hard to find any connection between 的Mormon church and its leaders and 的1st century Jewish preacher from Galilee. Or even with 的‘Jesus Christ’ of Christian faith.

    It hard to see any connection between 的modern Mormon church and 的church of Hugh B. Brown.

    It’s sad that 的Mormon church chooses to be so much less than it could be.

    It’s sad that 的Mormon church has become an extravagantly wealthy multinational corporation whose leadership development program has carefully groomed clones in suits to manage conformity, construction, declining activity, a horribly in-efficient and under-performing missionary program, terrible convert retention, and a exodus of apostasy not seen since Kirtland.

    As a faithful BIC Mormon for decades I left 的church (and 所有 of Christianity) years ago very suddenly and painlessly after finally studying 的Bible more seriously and honestly. It had nothing to do with 约瑟·史密斯 or 的BOM or anything specifically Mormon. For a long time 的Mormon church was nowhere on my radar but, largely from accidental exposure to 摩门教徒的故事and 约翰·德林, 的decline of Mormonism (in spite of its touted but highly misleading growth to ~15 million members) has become a passing curiosity and source of sadness.

    I’d say “Good luck”, John, but you don’t need it. You’ll do fine as an ex-Mormon and 的church won’甚至没有注意到’又往后退了一步。他们’我会注意到但不承认没有任何变化…活动将继续下降,人们将继续照原样离开,甚至可能加速。他们’我会简单地认为这是风吹草动,并且在完全缺乏诚实和自我意识的情况下,证明他们是“the few that be” that have found 的straight & narrow and who cling to 的iron rod.

    It’s 所有 very sad. The Mormon church has become just another church… and less.

  18. 英语不是我的母亲’的语言,请多多包涵。

    教会给我提供了一个虚构的故事,使我在25岁时进入了追随者的行列。接受我三十年来的辛勤工作和奉献精神,以及家人的牺牲;用我的大部分时间带很多好人去教堂,训练他们做我做的同样的事情。我是教会教别人接受虚假故事的工具。我一次打了一个电话,包括那30年中的大部分时间都是老师。教会让我教给儿童,青少年和成人30年的错误故事。 30年来,我向这座教堂捐款,是因为它使我相信这座虚假的奇迹般的恢复和先知善良的故事。这个故事是一个谎言,这是一个点缀的宗教宣传。
    The church determined 的direction of my life and 的life of my family for their benefit. With a false story, it made me promise to give them my talents, my money and my time. It made promise not to reveal their “sacred” and secret ceremonies even under 的threat of death. For 30 years, it made me wear clothes made and sold by 的chuch that were virtually 所有 的time in contact with my skin as a reminder that I was a servant and a soldier for them.
    I lost many oportunities for personal and professional growth, knowledge and understanding of 的world, because of this church and its false story.
    而且,我一生都无法理解我和我的家人(我的孩子,孙子,兄弟和他们的家人以及我亲爱的朋友和他们的家人)所失去的一切。

    我可以肯定的一件事是:驱逐约翰·德里恩的正直理由是公开宣告不要再相信他们的许多谎言,而不是因为他对同性恋权利和受戒的女性的支持而被开除,这是教会的更糟糕的罪过。

    If there is a God, and that God honors 的truth. John Delhin will be rewarded. And 的church leaders that have taken upon themselves 的right to judge us, to excomunicate us, to deny our freedom of expression, exercising their control, dominion and compulsion on sincere people, will be shamed by that God.
    Although is late in my life to recover what I lost because of this church, of one thing I am greatful: that I do not belong to 的inner circle of church leaders that go into their temple to anoint one another with “secure”承诺高举,无论他们犯下任何罪过。如果有神或没有神’t,我不想成为那个亵渎的一部分。

    我最真诚的爱,尊重和钦佩,并向约翰·德里恩及其家人致以最良好的祝愿。

  19. New and not fully informed of 的content nor overt/covert motives. However, I feel I have a good general grasp…. and likewise, 的LDS Church in conjunction with 所有 other mainstream churches of Christianity.

    在我70岁’ish years I’我做了一个中央观察。仍然存在‘congregation’他们寻求并争取比自己更大的权威,以便有组织地生活。然后是教会的等级制度…the ‘corporate’ leadership of a mega monetary organization and public image. This is 的part of 所有 mainstream churches that become lost. By a large degree of necessity I suppose, they become servants of man evloving to mans requirements of 的times and circumstances…类似于上任后的民选官员。世俗的影响和腐败!

    所有教堂‘market’ their own chosen ‘church doctrine’ as 的only church of authority in God’s eyes though they largely have and use 的same printed Bible of 的Christianity faith. No church is absent their own particular doctrines having come through prophecy from God.

    Churches are for guidance and support of 的weak, frail and those experiencing lifes trial and tribulations…. ‘all’ of us! If 的King James version of 的Bible is a true document then that is 所有 that is needed. If in fact 的Bible is a ‘living’如此众多的教会所描绘的文件记载着人类正遭受严重的麻烦。我坚信,由上帝审判比由人审判更好… in fact, churches have NO business saying what of mankinds weakeness, frailities can sit in their churches 会众s as members or visitors!

    Come on leadership of 的LDS, you ‘all’ have your own weaknesses, frailties and trials and tribulations just like every other member or visitor of 的church, just a bit more covert for many, I suppose. Just love ‘all’ our brethern to 的time of judgement by God!

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