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  1. 约翰真是太棒了,谢谢您的采访。
    The timing of both the recording 和 the release of this interview is so interesting to me.
    No way you could have 知道n at the time (including the results of the Presidential election), 和 so thought provoking.
    艾米’s voice speaks for my thoughts 和 feelings about feminism so much more clearly than some of the louder voices I hear.
    再次,我非常感谢这次采访。<3

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  2. 两个想法

    1)它真的很长!我也累了一半。不能想象生活40年会怎样。

    2) “Just bow your head 和 say 没有。”谁有新选择?

    很棒的采访。

  3. 我有很多同样的思考过程&我和您一样,必须深究他们,否则他们会吞噬我。我把它们放到“我有一个见证….”就像您所购买产品的推荐书& love &为什么向所有人推荐它。

    无论我在生活中做出何种选择,我始终感受到来自上帝的无限爱。我记得我第一次读旧约’s entirety &它在我的心中留下了如此糟糕的感觉,因为那不是我心中认识的上帝。他不是这个不体贴,生气,报仇的人。他是一个父亲,希望他的孩子学习,希望他们进步,一个看到’s 其 weaknesses &把他们变成优势。沿着这些思路,当我完整阅读《新约》时,我会感到耶稣&父亲是有目的的。他们的举止有多相似&我也很喜欢基督对女人的拥护。他怎么说&他的时间做得很激进&他没有犹豫或退缩。他怎么能扮演一个霸气的角色&他的使徒会让他想起今天的心态&他会让他们知道他们有错误的观点…好一个不完整的。

    So when I 1st heard about women throwing protests to get the priesthood with such passion I though I would read about 其 perspective. I thought about things I have heard or read over the years that gave me a different come from. I could see how this was triggering so many women into this energy of deprivation &在所有现实中,让他们感到那样的让我感到很难过。我不’不记得我多年来听这些东西的顺序…只是它们都是层…上帝是这样教导的…然后随着时间的流逝,它们融合在一起成为一件精美的杰作…

    女人更像天使–Boyd K Packer

    在启蒙运动中,女人每一次记笔记都被宽恕& tittle &男人只被宽恕了

    母亲对社会结构负责。

    Motherhood is the other side of godhood as we work in combination with Father to create bodies for 我们的 brothers &姐妹精神进入这一生的经历。

    Men need to be given authority to help them rise to 其 responsibility level.

    义母祈祷的力量。

    从他第一次去庙里开始,我就有这种磨砺的感觉。第一次过后,我很难回头。一旦我把脑袋缠起来“the nature of God” & that He doesn’不想得罪我。他没有’不想把我放在我的位置。他没有’不想让我变得比我宏伟的自我更重要,我开始看着困扰我的每一层,都通过不同的视角。当然,所有这一切都花费了数年,这绝不是一夜之间的事情。

    所以整个亚当& Eve 故事。 I 知道 I have so much more to learn…但是我想到了我有怎样的学习欲望& to 知道..& to learn for myself…如果我把那精力& apply it to that 故事 in the way that it is told 我可以 see myself being pricked by my curiosity…运用父亲之前对我们说过的话…不只是做事“因为有人告诉我” &我自己想要体验。 (ISN’就是我们现在感受到的同样的能量& 呼唤 it following patriarchy blindly?) So if I put myself in Eve’我相信我会做出同样的决定。我是否喜欢以某种方式描述我被撒但欺骗了。。不!他会利用我们的好奇心吗&对我们缺乏了解。。绝对!当您知道得更多时,您就会做得更好…我是否以某种方式认为亚当是更勇敢的精神。不。我认为我们认识两个男人吗?&有性格的女人可以向别人学习错误或从爱情中寻求建议& respect &兑现。是!我是否认识其他人(像我自己)必须努力学习。…所以这与个性有关&与个人性别无关。

    本来是男人的分裂&女人真的打扰了我,但随着时间的流逝,我逐渐了解到,对于大多数女人来说,她们有着强烈的承诺感。& responsibility to 其 children (Just look at the millions of single mothers raising children) So if I look a it as an opportunity for God to help his sons develop that part of themselves that innately comes in most women it makes me feel differently. If I look at the structure that God puts in everything & see how the “rank”与自我有更多的关系,而不是与谁真正完成工作有关,这关系到他的优势。就像您将它换成节奏感一样…可以说女人是天生的…那么从父母的角度来看,您将不会在寻找方法向您的女儿教书,因为他们的女儿天生…如果可以的话,这是您希望在儿子中培养的敬虔属性吗?

    我是关于女人的’s power but 我不’相信永远都必须以剥夺男人的东西为代价。我们每个人都会带来一些成分,以制成出色的最终产品。 eb& flow, the yin &杨如果我们都打算做所有事情,那么就不需要性别不同了。我们都可能是中性&然后致力于开发一切的所有部分。

    说了什么&我问自己是不是我的灵魂在乎这个,或者这是我的自我讲话…。主要是当我被激发时,是我的自我要认可,影响力或赞美 …我记得我曾经说过一个故事,一位女士说她想当主教,这样她就可以坐在看台上望着她的会众,& she could hear &帮助人们解决问题。我大声笑着,因为我认为她从来没有参加过救济会的主席职务,在那里她可以感受到这份声明的全部分量。他确实要做这些事,但他将不得不为他的所有决定对上帝负责&您可以看到的所有壁炉架’我见过的每位主教的电话。我记得作为RS辅导员感到很高兴,我就在那里“assist”RS Pres和她的壁炉架&那是她的体重&代表。我记得作为第一任总统的壁炉架从未离开过。我每天梦见那些孩子& felt the love &担心上帝给每个小孩。我知道他们每个人的名字&情况(我的大脑名字很糟糕,这本身就是一个小圣诞节奇迹*大声笑*)因此,尽管我们专注于将我们的家变成人间天堂,& weaving the fabric of society I think it is a relief to 知道 that we can 助攻 我们的 husbands with 其 “calling”但这是他们的责任&他们可以帮助我们,但是这是我们的。并提醒自己,撒旦是关于鸿沟的全部&征服。当我们团结起来时,我们是多么强大的力量。如果有人闯入我的房子,让我的丈夫成为第一响应者对我来说是性别歧视吗?父亲希望自己的孩子让母亲照顾他们而不是企业或机构,这是性别歧视吗?他有可能留在家里吗&当然,在她工作时也这样做,我个人认为我会做同样的事情吗?’。我不觉得我是一个不同的人吗’绝对不必专注于支付账单。我是否可以环顾四周& see those in need &能够把我的房子变成家&毫无疑问,创造另一种能量的避风港!我是否有这样的感谢之情,要感谢我的丈夫,她现在愿意成为唯一的提供者,我绝对能够发展自己的另一部分。对我而言,家人是TEAM的另一种说法&每个成员都有自己的角色&m件事。我应该为我的财务人员没有从事人力资源工作感到生气吗?我拒绝。当每个成员都有能力去做他们最擅长或对您有兴趣的事情时,他们就会从激情而不是期望中获得人们做事的全部力量。&您得到不同的最终结果。所以我问自己,我是不是在听这个世界的声音,告诉我某种程度上存在失衡?好吧,我的自我可以像没有明天一样将其分解,但我的灵魂可以看到,阳光照耀着树木生长的食物。当我养活自我时,它阻碍了我的灵魂成长。

    我完全被这个词触发“submissive”. it took me years but 我可以 see that is a part of my soul that i need to work on. Being 顺从的 does not mean that I need o be weak, or less than. TO me the saying from a movie that goes something like ” The man is the head but the women is the neck) says it all for me. It brings something good out in men when they feel they are the kings of 其 castle. (of course some men take this too far but that can be said about most things) Even if we look at this from 我们的 “caveman brain”在潜意识里,我们喜欢他们强大,保护,提供者,领导者,自信,固执者等。&他们将主要出现在这种场合。也许我们很自然地被接管&以某种方式做事& so it is in 我们的 best interests to let go a little &让别人发展自己的那一部分& in-turn that lets us develop another part of 我们的selves.

    至于天堂里的母亲…我相信您可以随时与她交谈。我相信她受到父亲的保护。我相信他没有’不想白白地说出她的名字。我相信他把她抱在一个神圣的地方& He see’他以基督的名,以玛丽的名亵渎神灵所做的一切’s name &如果您考虑这是十诫之一。那给我们带来的影响’不能完全理解。 (像收获法则之类的东西等)
    我可以’告诉你我看了多少花&只是对天堂中的母亲有一种压倒性的感觉“drew them up”至少。如此复杂的细节& beauty &品种。那个夏娃是”万物之母” is so encompassing.

    我还没有完全围绕一夫多妻制。我唯一接受的一层是事物的血液方面,但我知道还有很多层需要研究。我爱你公开表达了自己的斗争&思考过程。我也喜欢文字&还有这一切的心理学&所以我感谢你对你的心理内在的了解’s层。我很高兴看到您没有放开信心之火&您继续寻找许多问题的答案。 *最紧的拥抱*

  4. 可悲的是,LDS教会的改革只是’t in the cards, at least not at a rate that moves faster than glaciers. The only sane thing for members like 艾米 who are struggling for air is to leave. Pushing for change will only serve to cause pain 和 disappointment.

  5. 艾米. What a wonderful 和 uplifting interview! The way that you combine dedication, research, critical thinking, compassion, integrity, fortitude, intelligence 和 perspective is inspiring! I love your respect for words 和 其 importance. I love the imagery of the tectonic plates. I love how you’re willing to openly cherry pick the Scriptures for the good stuff 和 discard those pieces that threaten your integrity. I have distanced myself from the Church 和 I do not consider the Scriptures to be revealed truth, however, I do recognize that they certainly contain truths.

    In both the Scriptures 和 in the Temple, Eve has been one of my main heroes. 她 was a critical thinker! 她 considered two opposing commandments 和 saw a higher law 和 lesser law 和 chose her actions according to the higher law, the commandment that would bring the most good! Then she expressed her decision to Adam after she had already taken action. Like Eve, he considered the situation 和 acted for the greatest good.

    如果有人问我摩尔门经中我最喜欢的经文是什么,答案很简单:雅各书2:17。著名的诗歌“在您寻求财富之前,先寻求上帝的国度”诗。很少强调或直接讨论的经文。内容为:

    “17 Think of your brethren like unto yourselves, 和 be familiar with all 和 free with your substance, that they may be rich like unto you.”

    When examined, this verse speaks volumes! I love it because it suggests that we need to really 知道 people as well as share 我们的 good fortune.
    作为旁注,《摩门教徒的故事》播客约翰·德林(John Dehlin)对我来说是一个极好的方式“familiar with all.” Thank you!

    I was a TBM all my life until a couple of years ago. My most recent 呼唤 was teaching in 我们的 high priest group once a month from the “教会主席的教.。” For five years I taught lessons from those manuals 和 grew more 和 more concerned at the way the manuals seemed to glorify these men. If the manuals are to be believed these presidents were a perfect example of every principle that they ever taught. I may be exaggerating a bit, but not much. I began to see that presidents of the church were not seers 和 revelators, that doctrines regarding homosexuality did not square with objective reality, that the fight against marriage equality was a fight to make government adhere to religious doctrines. I saw that these good men, 和 yes I do see them as very good people, were not seers but blinded by lifetimes of indoctrination. A simple but dramatic example can be found in 其 instructions to “通过承担责任获得见证。”告诉别人即使你不相信你也相信’t,直到您听到自己说了足够多的声音而开始相信它为止?弟兄们,可以’您看到那仅仅是洗脑吗?

    当它破裂时,我不知道我在架子上放了太多东西!打破我的问题不仅是我的架子,也是我坚定的信念的架子。我真正拥有的证据可以让我说出很多次,例如:“I 知道 there is a God in Heaven 和 He loves me?” No actual evidence at all! Just feelings. Emotions. Everything that had fallen was now piled on the table in front of me 和 it seemed impossible to sort through. My solution? Clear it all away. Every bit of it, then start putting back everything that I could verify was real. I think in the interview you said something to the effect of “you don’不必做任何侵犯您诚信的事情。”相信没有证据的断言侵犯了我的诚信。

    整整一年之后,现在仍然完全空白。我做的很好,因为我喜欢。我更渴望做有意义的事情,因为我不’我走了以后,看不出有什么办法做。我相信地狱,因为我’ve been there. It’s that place where 你不’t get a moments rest because you have to juggle contradictory beliefs continuously. I believe in people! They are good! I believe in 知道ledge. It is the power to overcome fear! I believe in science. It is the power to equip people with the tools of prosperity 和 communication! I believe that every decade the world gets better!

    I’m sorry to turn this comment into a condensed version of my 故事。 Your interview caused me to look at most of my experiences from an additional positive perspective. You’re awesome 和 making a difference!

  6. Thank you 艾米 和 John for this incredible interview. It was very helpful 和 healing to listen to someone express so many of my own thoughts 和 feelings with so much strength, clarity, honesty 和 humility.
    John, thank you for this work you do. I am sure you 知道 on some level how much hearing discussions like this one helps people (that is why you do this), but it just needs to be reiterated. You are doing such an important work. For some reason, during this interview I found myself feeling emotional for the harm that has been done to you, myself 和 other by this church. And yet, there was a feeling of real love which reminded me of Rumi 和 his words: “Out beyond ideas of right 和 wrong…there is a field. I’ll meet you there.”

  7. This was so deeply moving! Thank you for sharing your 故事 艾米! Was moved to tears when you talked about striving to live up to the examples of those Revolutionary War era women like Abigail Adams 和 Phillis Wheatley. Thank you for your courage!

  8. This interview resonated so much with my experience as a woman in the church. For years I felt that I was broken 和 something was wrong with me since I felt uncomfortable with the deeply ingrained patriarchy in the church 和 beat myself up for not being the right kind of woman who felt totally fulfilled by church service 和 raising my children. It is so validating to hear it expressed so eloquently in a public forum. I’d love to hear more stories from women 和 其 personal/spiritual development

  9. I’自从我读艾米以来,就一直在等待这个播客’s essay. I made my husband read her essay 和 he was shocked as well that he never realized the wording in the temple. I loved the comparison to The Giver (great book!) 和 how many women in the church remain stagnant 和 don’t see the issues there, but once you look at the issues it becomes so blatantly obvious. I got emotional when she talked about her girls 和 how she didn’不想为他们。对于我自己的女儿,我经常会感到非常相似。感谢您的播客!

  10. It’约翰没听懂圣殿的措辞,这很有趣。经历过数百次,我已经记住了。如果妇女(和男人)在庙宇中遇到许多问题,只要他们简单地理解其基本象征就可以克服。例如:告诉我们要考虑一下自己“好像我们在亚当和夏娃的地方。” That “AND”非常重要!这是什么意思。我希望那些阅读此书的人能够理解该主题的神圣性质。我希望它能为感到自卑的女性带来理解和康复。请考虑以下几点:亚当代表我们的精神(坚强并愿意服从上帝),夏娃代表身体(自然人)。夏娃(身体)是所有活着的母亲(凡人或自然人)。是身体(夏娃代表屈从于撒旦)’的诱惑)。请记住,这是一个“story.” We don’不知道它是否是真实的(它是如何发生的)。的“story” is meant to “teach you.”当夏娃立约“听丈夫的话,听丈夫的话。”她(我们所有人)正在做的事情是许诺让我们的身体(自然人)听从我们的灵(由亚当代表),而圣灵则希望听从父。意思不是放下妇女或使她们屈服于丈夫,但身体(夏娃)承诺在他(你的灵魂)向上帝倾听时向神(ADAM)倾听。再次考虑那个词“and” which I talked about above. This covenant is meant for BOTH man (husband) 和 women (wife).

    庙宇中还有许多其他隐藏的含义,如果有的话,它们可能会解决许多人的问题。“ears to hear, 和 eyes to see.” Pray that you can see through the areas (problem items) that concern you, 和 find there hidden meaning. It just might surprise you that you just didn’即使去庙里20年也看不懂!希望这对某人有帮助。

    1. DS……。我竭尽全力,我觉得这听起来像BS……..全部都是从JS开始的。您乐观的道歉语气对所有没有耳朵听的人都是轻视。我在1980年执行任务之前的几周里第一次去了圣殿。我讨厌这种经历,但是像我的好儿子一样,对我的父母保持了良好的容颜。我一生中从未回过一次开创性会议。我以为老人把雨披在我的雨披下面的身上加油,真是太糟糕了。是…。我知道90年代的一切都发生了变化,因为教堂因成员抱怨它的不合适性而施加压力。

      How do you explain your Adam/Spirit concept 和 the Eve/Natural Man concept to the old penalties we all signed up for when we would act out how we would kill 我们的selves rather than reveal signs 和 tokens of the priesthood? It doesn’t fly with me. When you say the 故事 is meant to teach you…. I am drawing a blank as to why the temple ceremonies completely bypass 耶稣基督的赎罪。 It is my understanding that Christ’s atonement covers everyone. But apparently according to the arrogance of the temple message, his atonement only applies to temple endowed members who have studied 和 memorized the script 和 故事 as you have. You can only come into Gods kingdom (The Celestial Kingdom) if you get all the passwords 和 secret combinations right. For women, they can only get in if 其 husbands remember 其 new name correctly 和 allow her to come forward through the veil. The rest of us are SOL.

      I have ears to hear 和 eyes to see. I have given myself permission to explore the dark history of 约瑟·史密斯, 一夫多妻制, Polyandry, The 亚伯拉罕书, 和 many other disconcerting things of the church’s truth claims. It all comes up short or outside of the message of 耶稣基督的赎罪。 I will risk my soul on Christ 和 His atonement, not on what 约瑟·史密斯 learned at his Masonic Lodge Classes!

      1. 对不起,您对圣殿感到如此难过。我能看到你是从哪里来的。一世 ’ve been down that road too. We all struggle to some degree with all this. Most are disappointed in the temple the first time they go. Pres. McKay even was! Maybe if you would have allowed yourself to return often as we are taught you might have change your opinion of thing. It sounds like you still are not allowing yourself to understand the experiance 和 the messages taught. Yes, I understand all the Masonic connection. I could list everything I’ve done in the Church 和 life (I’我是一位历史老师)’我不傻我已经花了几年时间处理您提到的内容。是的,它可以带您进入兔子洞。我不知道谁是JS。我觉得艾米说她在耶路撒冷学习很有趣。我还和BYU在以色列呆了四个月。只是因为那段美好的时光,我才留在教堂里。我因为对自己的使命感到沮丧,以至于我最终在普罗沃的一家精神病院里呆了四个星期,所以我不’t understand your expereiance with the Church or the temple is a understatement. Believe me when I say I have been in the hole, 和 very deep in. Only by the grace of God am I still on this earth. I understand as few will what the Church can do to you (for good 和 ill). I went to the temple before the 1990 change, so yes I remember all that was taken out.

        我觉得你的兄弟痛苦很少。我已经到了终结生命的地步,并为此责怪教会。我仍然每天挣扎。查看网站staylds.com。把重点放在基督身上。不要责怪教会您生活中出了问题或没有做过的事情’不会如您所想(我也对自己说)。它’s okay to say “no.”做可以的。去找您精神上的幸福。上帝比你相信的更慈爱和仁慈。他是成功的父亲和上帝。有更多的人会把它还给他!扔掉您对圣殿的负面看法。列出为麻烦项目的事物,可以从您给它们的不同角度看到。所有宗教都有艰难的事情。耶稣问十二十二人,在他教了一些教义之后,他们是否也会离开他。无论如何,我可以继续,但会停止。希望您能看到我已经走到最低点,并且仍在尝试爬出那个洞。我们似乎都退缩了。’重要的是不断攀爬。基督将有一天按照圣殿中的教导伸出手来拉你–面纱(你去 –殿里传讲的赎罪,你以为不在那)。我希望您不要被我所说的话所冒犯,没有人想要的。关键是:去过那里,做了那件事,试图继续前进。记住上帝就是爱。现代的LDS教会有好有坏。留下,留下,打架,我们都有代理–这个代理机构给我们所有人造成了很多问题。只有上帝(基督)才能解决所有问题。约瑟夫,他们对托马斯都有代理权,在所有宗教中都有神与人混合。只记得他爱你。一切都会解决。

      2. (Interesting. The thing that first led me out of the Mormon church 和 Christianity was “耶稣基督的赎罪。” The more I studied the Bible the more it became clear to me that Judaism had been right about Jesus 和 和 Paul the NT 和 Christianity all along. That was at least helpful in turning the disdain 和 contempt for Mormonism 和 约瑟·史密斯 that I might otherwise have felt into a mild curiosity into the religious genius of Smith. But I admit… the disdain 和 contempt crept in anyway.)

    2. DS,我称其为燃气照明。因为它仍然没有’解释如下内容:

      ________________________________________________________________________________

      以弗所书5:22:

      22妻子,将自己屈服于自己的丈夫,顺服主。

      ________________________________________________________________________________

      歌罗西书3:18

      18妻子,要顺服主,顺服自己的丈夫。

      ________________________________________________________________________________

      彼得前书3:1

      1同样,你们的妻子要服从自己的丈夫。如果没有听从这个词,他们也可以通过妻子的谈话赢得这个词;
      ________________________________________________________________________________

      提摩太前书2:11-13

      11 让 the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

      12但我不是要受女人教导,也不是要篡夺对男人的权威,而是要保持沉默。

      13因为亚当首先成立,然后是夏娃。

      ________________________________________________________________________________

      And here is something from the Adam 和 Eve 故事:

      创世记3:16

      16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow 和 thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; 和 thy desire shall be to thy husband, 和 he shall rule over thee.

      ________________________________________________________________________________

      但是还有更多:

      ________________________________________________________________________________

      男孩比女孩干净:

      利未记12:1-5:

      1耶和华对摩西说:

      2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, 和 born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean.

      3第八天,他的包皮要割礼。

      4 And she shall then continue in the blood of her purifying three 和 thirty days; she shall touch no hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purifying be fulfilled.

      5 But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: 和 she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore 和 six days.

      ________________________________________________________________________________

      男人比女人更有价值:

      利未记27:1-7:

      1耶和华对摩西说:

      2 Speak unto the children of Israel, 和 say unto them, When a man shall make a singular vow, the persons shall be for the Lord by thy estimation.

      3你估定的是那雄性,从二十岁到六十岁,估定的是银五十舍客勒,跟随圣所。

      4若是女的,你估定为三十舍客勒。

      5 And if it be from five years old even unto twenty years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male twenty shekels, 和 for the female ten shekels.

      6 And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, 和 for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver.

      7 And if it be from sixty years old 和 above; if it be a male, then thy estimation shall be fifteen shekels, 和 for the female ten shekels.

      ________________________________________________________________________________

      数数字时,仅包括男性。女唐’t count:

      民数记3:15

      15 Number the children of Levi after the house of 其 fathers, by 其 families: every male from a month old 和 upward shalt thou number them.

      ________________________________________________________________________________

      男人比女人先继承:

      民数记27:6-11:

      6耶和华对摩西说:

      7 The daughters of Zelophehad speak right: thou shalt surely give them a possession of an inheritance among 其 father’s brethren; 和 thou shalt cause the inheritance of 其 father to pass unto them.

      8 And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a man die, 和 have no son, then ye shall cause his inheritance to pass unto his daughter.

      9他若没有女儿,就应将自己的产业分给他的弟兄。

      10他若没有弟兄,就应将自己的产业分给父亲的弟兄。

      11 And if his father have no brethren, then ye shall give his inheritance unto his kinsman that is next to him of his family, 和 he shall possess it: 和 it shall be unto the children of Israel a statute of judgment, as the Lord commanded Moses.

      ________________________________________________________________________________

      因此,我为您提供了1973年的《少尉》文章的链接:

      //www.lds.org/ensign/1973/02/strengthening-the-patriarchal-order-in-the-home?lang=eng

      现在,您要告诉我我所引用的仍然是一个巨大的误解吗?问题是,我只是发布了这类内容的一小部分。

      1. 这正是我的想法。宗教上绝对没有什么可以说上帝相信艾米想要的。我希望不是’t so. This is what led me to be atheist. As a woman I could not agree with christianity 和 how they fit women into the gospel. If I am wrong then 我不’t want to worship that God anyway 和 will gladly go to hell. Yup. 🙂

      2. Agreed. The ancient scriptures you spotlighted are the basis for, 和 the origin of, the current sexism 和 patriarchal structure in the LDS church. Thank you for taking the time to list them 和 the Ensign 文章, 和 for not being afraid to offend someone by speaking out.

        The fact that by openly dissenting, a member can be excommunicated, seen as a traitor to the cause, discredited as sinful or misled, 和 his relationships with family 和 friends adversely affected, reveals the tyranny over 我们的 lives that religious traditions can wield.

        In religion people find a support group to help them get through this life, 和 a reassurance that there is life after death. To many, that is all that matters. In exchange for community 和 family support, 和 for the hope of eternal life, people are often willing to ignore, rationalize, or accept almost anything in 其 religion that might be amiss.

        It is not good enough for me anymore that churches do some good 和 have some good intentions. The damages done are what matter a great deal to me, especially when the actions of the church, which my name is attached to, do not exemplify the Christlike principles it espouses, 和 when its “inspired” writings, leaders, 和 policies do not really reflect my genuine convictions.

  11. Hi 艾米,

    非常有趣。一世’m a privileged white male priesthood holder. Feminist issues have not been front 和 center in my mind. Thanks for helping me understand 和 empathize. I have a long way to go on this one.

    But, 我可以 relate to looking for ways to stay in the church. I really appreciated the perspectives you shared.

    You encouraged women to express 其 voice. That they don’t need permission to speak. Well, I think that applies to both men 和 women. As a man, I have found 我们的 culture grates 和 punishes when someone offers an opinion that goes agains the concensus. At least in my part of the country.

    我爱你的女儿’因特朗普而移居加拿大的智慧’的选举。她说现在’s even more important that your family stay to fight for the vulnerable 和 those on the margins. That’这是我留在教堂的理由之一,尤其是在去年11月之后’的同性恋排斥政策。

    也许教会可以’不能从上到下进行更改。但是,它可能会通过基督为教会治理所强制执行的法律从下而上改变—共同同意法。 242位成员在10月投票反对’s General Conference. One in the conference center 和 241 in local venues. 310 are now prepared to vote opposed at conferences in 2017. You can see who they are here: //www.gopetition.com/petitions/register-for-voting-opposed.html

    You mention that many of your friends have left the church. Obviously, they have voted 其 opinion with 其 feet. 310 other members have decided to stay in the church 和 vote with 其 hands. That number’的成长。在我看来,耶稣作为修复的一部分而发出的最华丽的诫命之一就是本《同意法》。它’s time that we as a church fully embrace it. But, this will not happen from the top down. It will only occur by the general membership finding 和 raising 其 own voice 和 authority.

    祝您旅途愉快!

  12. This is exactly where I am 和 I am so thankful 艾米 is telling her 故事 和 it is shared here. I wish I’d gotten to 知道 her in Jerusalem!

  13. I think this two-episode podcast interview with 艾米 is a landmark for 摩门教徒的故事(and for me 和 my wife). It documents a young Mormon woman’s experience navigating 和 researching the origins 和 culture of patriarchy in the Mormon church. The key element here is that she is a YOUNG, smart, rational Mormon woman with above average “Mormon-Cred” who has figured out that 父权制, particularly the Mormon brand is not the way of God. My dream is that every young Mormon woman can have some exposure to the 艾米s of the church who have figured it out 和 are modeling rational thought processes in doing so. 艾米 is using critical thinking rather than emotion, “a burning bosom” or “the spirit” to reach some very important conclusions about her life 和 her church. I hope my own daughters would choose to listen to this someday 和 realize the cliff they are hanging from has a drop of only a foot 和 that’s quite manageable.

  14. I think this might be one of my favorite episodes ever, John. Certainly 秩s in the top 5! Thank you for sharing your 故事, 艾米. 我可以 relate on so many levels. You have 启发 me to keep writing 和 keep doing the lateral work. I just received a new church 呼唤 和 while I am so irritated with the overt sexism I’ve been feeling since being set apart Sunday, listening to you, 艾米, helps me to see this opportunity with new eyes 和 to commit to the work it will take to use this new “platform” 和 challenge myself to grow. Sincere thank you!

  15. I’ve only listed to the first part of the first podcast, but so much of this resonates (as a man with plenty of women in my life). I need to have my wife listen to this. I see far too much deference with women, to the patriarchy, to male leadership. I also have three daughters 和 I want them to feel fully empowered to do all they can.

    这是一个很棒的播客。

  16. 多么惊人的采访!非常感谢!艾米说的很多话都引起了我的共鸣!我经历了许多相同的想法/感觉,但艾米比我能更清楚地表达她的经历。我可以’非常感谢你们俩进行的对话!

  17. 谢谢你的女儿’s comment about the election. Your interview was amazing but this part struck me. My husband is from Mexico 和 我们的 children are at a bilingual school. We speak Spanish at home 和 the fear has been out of control for my husband lately. Knowing there are people who love us 和 will stand with us is a huge deal. Recent events have left him scared to go to church. Thank you!

  18. 哇!如此精彩的插曲。让我惊讶的是我做了多少’t notice growing up in the church 和 going through the temple as a man. Thank you so much for this.

  19. I’m finishing the podcast 和 wanted to push back a little bit on some of the conclusions to trust only in one’s one intuition 和 conscience. A part of this I love, but another part of me realizes it may be an over-reaction to giving all of 我们的 opinions 和 ideas over to 我们的 prophets 和 scripture. Because how untrustworthy are we? Especially since we are all just as flawed 和 in some cases more so than others around us.

    哪个很好,但是那里’s something about institutions, culture 和 community that provides a foundational baseline – not a perfect one, but a vetted baseline. I value my institutional memberships 和 even those 我不’t belong to because they consolidate 和 vet expertise 和 act as a powerful balance to my own worse impulses.

    It’s why 我不’t think it’s good to just go out on 我们的 own. I’我不是说艾米·麦菲·艾伯斯特(Amy McPhie Allebest)相信这一点,但是它’是在相当随意的对话中出现的方式(所以我明白了)…

    1. 我了解不同的听众会解释艾米’的话不一样,但是我喜欢艾米’s comment that all we have to go on is 我们的 own conscience 和 我们的 own perception. Each of us has to interpret for 我们的selves any spiritual feelings that we may experience. We each have to decide how much we are going to trust information that we get from the LDS Church 和 from other institutions.

      1. 我也喜欢,但我’我对此特别敏感,因为我担心我们’总的来说,不仅在这里,而且是系统地进行过度校正。很多人要离开教堂。我认为我们需要教会,不仅是为了我们自己,而是为了各种原因而生活。

        Also, each of us needs something to challenge us, to conflict us, to rub up against 我们的 own opinions. We’都深深地,深深地犯错了。它’s this middle way where we both honor 我们的 own feelings 和 we honor 我们的 heritage 和 the institutions we support 和 belong to. Not just Mormonism but where-ever we find 我们的selves.

        我不’t think this is necessarily meant to be a push-back, more a clarification 和 a supplement to the thoughts I heard in the podcast.

        1. Maybe the people who need it stay in, 和 the people who don’t- don’t.

          Do addicts need 其 drug? What does need mean?

          我们需要食物才能生存。那不’并不意味着我需要特定的食物,甚至所有的食物。

          1. 谢谢艾琳,这个措辞有点偏离“我认为我们需要教会,不仅是为了我们自己,而是为了各种原因而生活。”

            I just think to have a full, well balanced life we need to incorporate spirituality. And I believe spirituality should have both individual 和 communal components to it.

            I also think 我们的 societies function better with well functioning, empowered 和 vocal spiritual voices – churches 和 church leaders who are in the conversation with the scientists, academics, politicians, etc.

            我们只是不’t 知道 anything, any of us, we need to talk 我们的 problems using every tool we’ve got.

    2. 斯科特(Scott),建立和执行行为守则以保护我们免受彼此伤害的机构,捍卫我们的思想和言论自由权的机构,提供教育并试图杜绝无知和迷信的机构以及提供支持的机构因为那些有需要的人绝对对个人和整个社会是互惠互利的。宗教有时可能在某些时候发挥某些功能,但最终,他们始终始终将主要精力放在灌输思想,赢得心,保持忠诚度以及收集现金以确保机构及其传统的永续发展上。为此,个人的最大利益以及机构所教的道德和原则常常会被抛在一边。 LDS教会对此毫无保留。 。 。它需要一个人把一切都献给教会’时间,才能和手段,作为救赎的条件。它要求我们中止常识,逻辑和理性,从字面上接受圣经的故事,无视或驳斥任何与圣经或教义相抵触的科学,跟随并支持领导人,无论他们是对还是错,如果我们保持沉默有疑问和疑惑,以默认同性恋恐惧症和性别歧视。我们不’不需要这种机构。世界上有如此之多的需求,众多的善因,以及我们可以加入其中的众多好人,我们不必躲在一个保护性但令人窒息的泡沫中,“lay waste 我们的 powers”以信仰为导向的组织,而不是以行动为导向的生活。

      1. 关于此报价:

        “Religions may serve some of those functions some of the time, but ultimately 其 main focus all of the time is on indoctrinating minds, winning hearts, retaining loyalty, 和 collecting the cash to secure the perpetuation of the institution 和 its traditions. ”

        First of all, think this is a cynical view of religions 和 one I just don’t share. I think religions like all institutions do worry about self-preservation, but I also feel most of the time, most religions are actually trying 其 best to do good 和 help people find God. Second, I think this can easily describe non-religious institutions who are also worried about many of those same concerns.

        我也不要’分享您对教堂的看法,而不是’s perfect 和 is prone to some of what you describe, but I also think it has 和 can improve over time. I also believe again that much of this is not unique to religions, including 我们的s.

        All institutions are flawed 和 prone to the human flaws of those who run them. 我不’t think we should completely give up 我们的 identity 和 agency to the institutions 和 religions we belong to. Likewise, 我不’t think we should divorce 我们的selves from all of these memberships either because individually we are all subject to prejudice, fear, sexism, etc. We’re all evolving.

        I’m just suggesting some natural checks 和 balances. I believe that religions have a unique perspective 和 goal 和 deserve a seat at the collective table. We would all be worse off without them whether or not we actively attend, in my opinion.

        1. 我称之为现实的犬儒主义。审核?让’查看圣经。 LDS教会坚决要求我们完全接受圣经,并从字面上接受圣经的故事。然而,这些是几千年前那些认为地球是平坦的人的著作,他们对周围世界现象的解释以及对生与死的看法,以及后来对他们的想象力的塑造,成为神话,并基于偏见,迷信,情绪和恐惧。我对《摩尔门经》和《约瑟夫·史密斯》进行了大量审查,而我不’认为他们已经通过了要求。我不同意世界宗教对我们都有好处。我认为,如果我们的世界充满着更多的人,他们会比人们对神话,事实,常识,理性,自由和平等的重视程度更高,而对他们的情感冲动,感情和宗教热情(所有人)会随风而变)对他们的决定和生活行为的影响较小。我知道有太多人因宗教而变得更糟,许多人感到幸运,尽管有宗教信仰,但他们在心理和情感上得以幸存。这是因为它转动着情感上的螺丝钉,它在我们的恐惧中发挥了作用,施加了内和敲诈,滥用和滥用的机会只不过是致命的有缺陷的人。绝对权力绝对会腐败。除了说服他人他们了解上帝的思想和意志并为他说话以外,人还能拥有什么更大,更绝对的力量?除了宗教可能具有的良好影响力之外,似乎总是存在着需要和尝试来迫使人类的思想,迫使人们相信和接受荒诞,几乎就像是像兄弟会一样的考验,以检验他们走了多远。愿意走,为了属于部落,他们愿意牺牲多少知识完整性,愿意忍受多少自己的尊严和个性。大多数宗教似乎总是涉及一些疯狂的仪式,没有这些仪式您就无法进入天堂。教会,同伴和家庭的压力是不离开,不质疑,不批评而不是为了和睦而接受,因为该机构非常脆弱,没有一心一意。但是,一心一意扼杀了多样性,多样性,开放性,创造力,讨论,成长,进步,变化。然后总会有那张巨大的情感王牌。 。 。如果你不’做个好去吧,你会打破你的母亲’的心。在LDS教会中有一种暗示,那就是可以,为了自己的利益,不要完全真实或对自己真实,即使您不相信,也最好作证,以便重复你会说服自己。如果教会像世俗机构一样有缺陷,教会领袖也像我们其他人一样有缺陷和不断发展,为什么要遵循他们的指导,为什么要相信自己的灵感,为什么要敬畏和跟随他们,而不是我们自己的本能,理智,和常识?我相信,仅仅将凡人赋予上帝代言的权利或能力是愚蠢的。这就是使政教分离变得如此重要的原因,也是使世俗组织和宗教组织之间的区别显着的原因。您可以中止在其职业上做得不好的男人的证书和证明。你可以投出的办公室政治领袖。你如何超越上帝所选择的喉舌?如何危险的是他有他的恩召和拣选作出,而他相信这一点之后,他永远失去他的救恩,无论他可能做什么?只是需要深思。

          1. 这主要是为了回应此评论的开头,以增加一点观点。 LDS教会并不坚决必须从字面上理解圣经。其实因为我们不’t necessarily see all stories as factual, we too believe the Bible was changed throughout history, whether intentionally or not, 和 that’s why we have the 约瑟·史密斯 translation, the 摩尔门经, 和 continuing revelation to give clarification or add to the teachings of the Bible. Other religions really don’t like LDS people because of 我们的 non literal view of the Bible.

          2. 赫斯, what scriptural stories do you 知道 of that have been officially treated as NOT factual by the church? I joined the church in my mid twenties 和 was very active for forty-two years, 和 I have never ever heard a church official characterize the LDS view of the Bible as non literal. You may be confused about what the 8th Article of Faith of the church means. It states “We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the 摩尔门经 to be the word of God.” It does NOT say “我们不从字面上接受上帝的道。”

            If correctly translated scriptures are the word of God, then those scriptures must be true 和 real, because God would only tell the truth, the whole truth, 和 nothing but the truth, wouldn’t he? If the scriptures include tall tales, the implication is that God is a liar. All religions back themselves into this same kind of corner. When 其 “holy writ” contains absurd claims 和 very hard-to-believe stories, the only alternatives to concluding that God is a liar are (1) believing that the scriptures are NOT His words, or (2) choosing to believe the scriptures no matter how unbelievable. That is why Mark Twain said, “Faith is believing in what you 知道 ain’t so.”

            关于为什么有人不这样做’就像摩门教徒一样,也许他们知道的摩门教徒是无与伦比的。如果他们不这样做’t like is the Mormon church, it is probably about polygamy, discriminating against blacks 和 homosexuals, patriarchy 和 sexism, abuse of women 和 children swept under the rug to protect priesthood holders, the secrecy of temples 和 the ridiculousness of garments, 和/or the beliefs 和 practices that contradict those of other Christian churches, such as personal accountability rather than original sin, 和 different degrees of glory according to 我们的 works rather than being saved by grace with equal salvation for all simply by professing belief in Christ.

            The last church meeting I attended was a Gospel Doctrine class in 2014 where the 故事 of Noah 和 the flood was presented as a true 故事 of a literal event, not as an allegory or a cautionary tale. The literal interpretation of the Noah 故事 by the church is affirmed by the LDS Bible Dictionary. Under the topic of “Noah,” it states “The authenticity of the Genesis account of the flood is confirmed by latter-day revelation as recorded in Moses 7:34, 42-43; 和 8:8-30. Cf. Ether 13:2.” The Book of Ether is in the 摩尔门经 (which is the word of God, according to the 8th Article of Faith). The Book of Moses, found in the Pearl of Great Price, is an excerpt from 约瑟·史密斯’s Inspired Revision of the Holy Bible (which is the word of God, according to the 8th Article of Faith).

        2. One more comment. It is regarding finding God. Consider the diaries of Mother Theresa. Seen as one of the most spiritual 和 exemplary of Christians to have walked the Earth, this unselfish soul who dedicated her entire life to the poor, in the end, was very disappointed 和 disenchanted with the Catholic Church 和 even doubted the existence of God.
          The gap between your 和 my thoughts can probably not be bridged, Scott, because I am pretty sure there is no God to be found, 和 there is no afterlife, especially as they have been fashioned by religious gurus. I am content to say I really do not 知道, 和 我不’t think that anyone else can really 知道 that either. I am OK with uncertainty, with the assumption that death is final, 和 with the belief that we should make the most of the time we have now, 和 fight for a better world rather than just accepting current conditions 和 looking forward to a better life after death. Just as children must eventually leave behind 其 belief in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, 和 the Tooth Fairy, 我可以not hang onto religious myths just because it is more pleasant 和 less scary to do so than to confront the abyss.
          Once upon a time I shared your viewpoint, so 我可以 respectfully agree to disagree with you. But now I think that if there were a God worth worshipping, he would not be found in a church. He would be out in the world fighting to stamp out injustice 和 looking for real life, real time ways to solve the world’s problems. He would be helping people on a battlefield, veterans suffering from PTSD, refugees fleeing a war zone, prisoners in jail, people dying of AIDS or cancer in a hospice center, patients in a hospital, children 和 women taken into sexual slavery, people living under bridges 和 on the streets, 和 those in mental institutions, political prisoners who are suffering because they have fought for freedom 和 civil rights, those caught in disaster areas . . . hurricanes, floods, fires, earthquakes, etc. If someone wants to find God, I think they should go out into the world to serve human need, not to convert others to 其 thinking or to peddle a belief system. In that way perhaps they will find real meaning 和 purpose in 其 lives, 和 will find that the divine is within themselves.

          1. Your points are well taken. I do not attend any church regularly, though I was baptized in the Eastern Orthodox rites 和 am married to a Roman Catholic who is active in his church faith. I have also considered the analogy you made that God is the Santa Claus for adults. I hope not, 和 continue to have faith in the life 和 resurrection of Jesus Christ. I certainly don’认为地球上没有任何人拥有这种确定的知识,无论他们是任何基督教仪式的成员之一。

      2. 想知道流浪者,

        请记住我 ’我试图开辟一条中间路,所以我认为您的批评在某些情况下会超出我的范围,’米换句话说,在您所说的某些事情上,我同意。

        有两件事:

        1) Just because something is old 和 based on a flawed, limited understanding of reality, doesn’并不意味着没有什么可以教我们– I think most religions are old, most of 我们的 sacred books from these religions are old. It means we should consider them in that context. 我不’相信这意味着我们应该解雇他们。

        2)您可能不相信上帝,但我想您会同意您的看法’我们是从非常世俗的方法到这一点。问题是这样的断言是有缺陷的。我们对世界的理性理解仍然十分有限。人们在快速发展的同时仍在发展。换句话说,我不’不能相信任何人已经(或可以)证明上帝不存在(或确实存在)。要说存在的唯一事实就是我们可以证明存在的事实,那可能不是正确的方法。一世’m assuming you agree…

        所以,如果你可以在那允许我’s a lot we don’t 知道… Why limit 我们的selves in how we approach the world? In practice none of us really do. In reality, we all use 我们的 emotions, 我们的 intuition, 我们的 feelings, 我们的 relationships, 我们的 community, 我们的 sense of ethics.

        在我看来,宗教使用其中一些工具来接近世界。我觉得在那里’s a ton of intersection between a spiritual person 和 an artistic person, between something seen as beautiful 和 something felt as religiously true.

        I think the point of a religion is to carve out some space in 我们的 lives to interact with others in trying to get a sense of 我们的 connection with others, with God –不管你以为上帝真的是。

        我认为宗教堕落的地方是当他们试图在世界上占据太多位置时–如果他们试图主张给科学家或历史学家的地方。对于神学家来说,圣经是否在历史上是准确的完全不重要。这些书根植于与历史叙事相关的故事中’使其成为历史书籍。他们可能在各种方面都错了,但这确实’s a mistake to even approach them trying to improve 我们的 understanding of history.

        我知道我们’re all on 我们的 own individual faith journey, so it’如果我们不同意这些细节,那很好。我唯一的一点’我试图穿越的是我们需要教堂。

        只是一个快速(希望是显而易见的)示例–美国的民权运动从教会那里获得了力量。

        Among all of its other jobs, churches speak in terms of community 和 relationships. Through these relationships 和 through 其 community we draw strength 和 power to move society forward – or at the very least to act as a counter-weight to governments, companies 和 universities.

  20. 让我有些困惑的是约翰’s comment that he had never realized that women take an oath to hearken unto 其 husbands 和 take a subservient role in the temple. Later in the interview John recounted how a friend of his at MIT had told him how much the temple endowments hurt her.

    What was new in what 艾米 was talking about that John’s MIT friend hadn’t previously said?

    1. 约翰没有’t 知道 the specific wording that women would be priests 和 priestesses “TO THEIR HUSBANDS.”

      He IS aware that they take an oath to hearken unto 其 husbands, they veil 其 faces, etc…。你误会了他只是没有’无法知道该特定短语的确切语言。一世’我听过他在其他播客中谈论过所有其他父权制寺庙的内容。

  21. I am not a Mormon, so it is hard for me to always understand why it is so difficult 和 painful to break out from a church that you love. Clearly Mormons live 其 religion every day more devoutly than most folks I 知道 from the east coast. I am from Boston. Hearing you talk about the statues on Commonwealth Ave was so moving for me. I am going to get in there this weekend to pay homage to those 3 women. John seemed so full of hope that Hillary Clinton would be elected. A visit to those statues will be one small way to feel better about this election.

      1. Well it is a little bit of a ridiculous reason, but I am a 唐ny Osmond fan so when I searched for videos on 的YouTube, 摩门教徒的故事came up. I watched John’s interview with Carolyn Pearson, 和 have watched many since. Since I am interested in how other women grapple with religious beliefs, I started watching more that came up in terms of women in your church!

        1. Haha! 唐ny certainly is a cutie! You wondered why it is so hard for disenchanted Mormons to let go of the church. A big pull is its many good hearted people like 唐ny. Their association 和 support help to compensate for the absurdities of the religion 和 the unpalatable parts of its policies.

  22. Thank you for your insights, I really appreciate your 故事。 When my youngest daughter went through the temple before getting married, she came out sobbing. 她 caught all the wording, she understood, the only thing she said was “I thought god loved me 和 now I 知道 he doesn’t.” I went again a few weeks later 和 realized everything she said was true. Woman are nothing in the Mormon church. I began a study of Mormon history that lasted two years. I came to the conclusion it is not true. I had to choose to be brave 和 leave, it was very, very hard 和 painful but it was the correct choice for me. I hope my daughters 和 granddaughters will 知道 that they are loved. Good luck to you in all you do, thank you for your writings, the words you wrote are very powerful 和 will help many women.

  23. John you were fantastic! such a skilled 和 insightful interviewer! you asked the important questions! thank you thank you thank you for asking her about some of the historical facts that were bothersome to her. it rounded out the picture. she was amazing! it takes so much courage to speak out

    我意识到自己对自己在父权制方面的经历变得不敏感–即使对历史进行了如此多的研究–我知道她在我的一生中教会了我多少有关父权制的负面影响

    I love that she said we each can listen to 我们的 own heart 和 head 和 知道 what is true 和 good–以及成为真实货真价实的感觉

    她’s on her own path 和 timetable
    But I appreciate her being honest about the disturbing things she sees in history 和 the present Church Organization

  24. 很好的采访,但我不知道’t understand why 艾米 remains active. There are so many people that John interviews or other podcasters interview or you read about that have issues with the Church that go to core principles, core doctrine but choose to remain in the Church. As if somehow they are going to remain 和 right some wrong. 我不’t get it. The Church is patriarchal. It has been from the beginning. It always will be. The day it ceases to be patriarchal is the day it ceases to be Mormonism. The Church is polygamy, male only priesthood, women needing men to get into the Celestial Kingdom, women having spirit babies eternally with 其 sister wives to populate her husband’s worlds, etc…. These are doctrines 和 beliefs taught 和 held from 约瑟·史密斯 down. This is nothing new. Saying it is wrong is basically saying Mormonism is wrong. So why stay? Clearly it is just nonsense.

    1. 同意!!!我真的不知道’明白了!我觉得他们对这些信念很诚实。他们不’隐藏它。宗教中没有别的说法。

  25. I loved the 文章 和 interview but was floored by the answer to the tithing question in part 2. “I don’t earn money so 我不’t pay tithing…Eric earns the money”…..把我吹走了这是写这篇文章的那个人

    1. 吉姆, I had the same response when I heard myself say it. Ugh. That was the one question I had not mentally prepared myself for, 和 my mind raced to find a loophole to get myself out of answering it. I wish I had just said “too personal; let’s move on.” The truth is that I have not earned money since giving birth to 我们的 first child (I address my feelings about that in my follow-up 文章, //mormondom.com/dear-mormon-woman-what-do-we-do-now-c01af04e9aeb#.oyd4t2nib),但如果没有我的同等权重投入就将决定移交给我丈夫的可能性当然与我所主张的一切背道而驰。那’s not how 我们的 marriage works… so while I’我不好意思’这是我目前想出的最好的 ’令您放心的是,您(以及希望其他听众)将知道这是瞬间的判断错误,而不是我真正的原则或实践的指示。

      1. It was a little unfair of me to point that out but I just had to. Your response to my comment was exactly what I expected after reading your 文章 和 hearing your interview. My wife was a little miffed at me for pointing it out publicly but I just had to. Primarily because I think it is part of 我们的 patriarchal culture that women don’真的感觉像是“their”钱,因为支票不是’t in 其 name. It has been a small argument in my marriage from time to time as well when my wife points out that I am rewarded with money for what I do 和 being a stay at home mom is so thankless most of the time. 她 said she would have answered that question from John the same way you did. I get it, but I happen to be one of those men who believe it is “our” money. I would say the majority of the Mormon men I 知道 feel like they have control of the money. There are a few I 知道 in 我们的 ward for example that “give 其 wife an allowance”. 😑

        Thanks for the response 和 again, powerful 文章!

  26. I have a friend who calls herself a Cafeteria Catholic, picking 和 choosing what she believes 和 what she rejects. The Catholic Church does not apply a litmus test of faith, or have monthly testimony meetings to pressure members into expressing total belief. They are just glad if you show up 和 throw something into the offering basket as it goes by. I didn’t think it was possible to be a Cafeteria Mormon, or at least not to be open about it, but it seems you are finding a way, 艾米, to walk that tightrope. You are a very impressive, intelligent, generous, loving young woman, 和 my heart goes out to you in your spiritual 和 emotional struggle to remain in the church 和 to help other LDS women use 其 voice. If the time comes that the pain 和 dissonance become too much, I hope you will not feel any guilt whatsoever for moving on. If 和 when that time comes, it might help to look at thIngs with a twist. Instead of a boy living in a girl’想象一下您的配偶在您的配偶对您的行为,而顶级教会领袖仍在继续朝着成员的方向努力。
    让’s say your husband had been a friend since childhood, 和 was always an integral, essential part of your life. When you both grew up he became the perfect, attentive suitor, 和 you gladly embraced him in marriage. It was only later that you found out many disturbing things about his past history which he had kept from you, 和 when you found out, he made excuses 和 dismissed those things as inconvenient truths, saying that you should just ignore them because they would not be helpful to your marriage, 和 in the end God will make everything right anyway. You realized that all this time you had been blind to who he really was because you did not have all the facts. Over the course of time, it became apparent that besides being deceptive, he was anti-intellectual, in denial of scientific facts, racist, homophobic, 和 misogynistic. He did not care to hear your thoughts, feelings, 和 opinions on things that were extremely important to you. He expected you to always follow him 和 agree with him without discussion, whether you felt in your own heart 和 mind that he was wrong or not. Under these conditions, no one could fault you if you finally decided you could no longer stay in this kind of personally damaging relationship 和 if you did not want this kind of man to be the role model for your children.

    I interpreted the Nov 2015 homosexual policy (revelation) as a huge step backwards 和 a knee jerk reaction from the church in response to the Supreme Court ruling legalizing same sex marriage. Trying to discredit 和 silence those who dissent by excommunicating them is an archaic, draconian measure that is another signal of retrenchment. The essence of the LDS church is still its scriptures, prophets, 和 priesthood authority, 和 我不’t see how the genuine goodness of the 秩 和 file 和 其 voices can ever trump traditions that the fifteen at the top are bound to uphold 和 perpetuate. I am not sure that future generations of leaders will be different. You don’t get to the top fifteen unless 和 until you are so totally entrenched in the myths, 和 have so much invested, 和 so much to lose, that no matter what, you fall in line 和 dedicate yourself to preserving established tradition. Check out how one of 我们的 most progressive leaders from the past, Hugh B. Brown, was treated.
    I wish you the best 和 hope I am wrong 和 you are right that things will change, but I won’t be around to see it, 和 it is already way overdue in coming.

  27. Please, please, please have more interviews with women! Whether they decide to stay in or move on from the church we need 其 voices. I am no longer active but my sister was just called to be the YW pres. in her ward. That is such an important position of influence, an opportunity to help empower girls to take ownership of 其 own lives if she has access to diverse opinions 和 dialogue. Their are so many daughters, granddaughters, nieces, etc…在我的家人赢得了’t listen to me ( I’m a scary apostate) but may listen to women like 艾米. Thank you 艾米 for your courage in writing that 文章. 女装in the church are hurting 和 there are few honest voices to help them identify 和 validate 其 feelings.

  28. One of the very best things about 摩门教徒的故事 is the level of candor, honesty, authenticity 和 integrity of the interviewees. And, of course, the safe, respectful 和 inviting space from John that allows it to happen. (I have often thought that 摩门教徒的故事could have taken a different 和 ego-driven agenda & tack that would have been counter-productive for transitional 和 ex-Mormons, 和 for John, but am continually impressed by how well 和 balanced, fair, affirming 和 professional. Kudos…。很有约翰意味’s own integrity 和 the value 和 purpose of his mission.

    I’ve listened to only 20-30 episodes 和 have never been more aware of or moved by it all than this interview with 艾米 Allebest, including her balancing act, backpack, 和 choosing what is right 和 good for her, 和 comfortably 和 adamantly rejecting what is not.

    This plus her essay has also been the single greatest eye-opener for me about patriarchy 和 feminism inside the Mormon church. And how one can then stay with a highly flawed 和 imperfect church in a way similar to keeping a highly flawed 和 troubled but beloved, life-long friend.

    很棒的情节!

  29. Wish 艾米 could hear my applause through the internet. Cannot tell you enough how impressed I am with how you have handled taking your faith into your own hands. Embracing good 和 rejecting bad, not in a cafeteria style or just what is easiest or most convenient, but truly what you feel God is telling you. Brilliant.

  30. 唐’约翰,很不高兴,没有注意到妇女在圣殿中所受的语言。一世’我是女人一位62岁的妇女从1974年到2010年忠实地参加了圣殿。包括向妇女保证她们将成为“queens 和 priestessess to [our] husbands” part–而不是男人“kings 和 priests unto the most high God” 和 it NEVER bothered me. I studied, I read 和 I interpreted some of the symbolism in the endowment, but the sexist stuff NEVER stood out for me. I’我为此感到尴尬。

    所以,不要’t feel badly, John.

  31. 我最大的不安时刻是她声称自己“knows”教会仍然是真实的。它’很难调和一座似乎压迫妇女的教堂,但仍然相信它’是的。我已移除“i 知道”从我关于任何宗教的词汇上讲。每当我听到别人说他们时,我都会畏缩“know” the church is true.

  32. Sexual egalitarianism is not very useful outside the artificial environment humans are attempting to create as a replacement for the physical world where the reality of life 和 the threat of death really exist. In the real world, the physical world, there are reasons the male brain 和 body evolved the way they did, 和 reasons the female brain 和 body evolved the way they did. Time 和 likely tragedy will reveal those reasons. One can extrapolate that the first domino to fall could possibly be when your boys don’t grow up to be men.

  33. 艾米,

    I just wanted to say thank you for sharing your 故事。 It was very timely for me to have just found it 和 listened to it, because after spending months 和 months studying church history, I got to a point where I felt like I was just breaking after listening to a 6 part podcast on Mormon Expresssions about Mormons 和 Masonry. I didn’t wear my garments for two days after that because I felt like they just didn’t mean anything anymore. And I’d had a hard time with them ever since I first got my endowment as well. I’ve been spending the last week in torment wondering if I could be a Mormon who just didn’t wear garments or go to the temple, but still went to church on Sundays. Luckily I live in a more open-minded ward (the Bushmans are actually in my ward) where I feel like doing this would actually be possible.
    但是,听说还有其他摩门教徒的女人在做我想做的同样的事情,这使我倍感欣慰。谢谢。

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