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  1. God would never inspire the leaders to even consider this question. Eight-year-olds are not old enough to make a covenant to begin with. The way we frame eight-year-old baptisms is wrong-headed on every level. 如果它 were a framed as a ceremony to introduce the child into the community as they begin to become accountable that would be one thing, but to propose that they are making a forever, conscious covenant with God is, I have to say, ludicrous. And then to “check in”在接下来的三年里“帮助孩子记住他们所制定的洗礼圣约”有很多负面影响,我不知道’不知道从哪里开始。

  2. I’我很惊讶没有人在这里说明显— isn’t it clear that the top 15 have already made up their minds? They need to capture these kids at younger and younger ages and indoctrinate them because if they wait til 14 or 15 a lot of kids are going to just laugh at these so called religious leaders with their keys to heaven and not take the questions seriously. The survey is just to give these new 值得 guidelines some justification in advance. As always, the needs of the institution are first and foremost.

  3. 再次感谢您出色的播客!

    I’m glad to see the 教会 has released this marketing research survey and ask the members, before implying the rule. Especially because the earlier survey helped so much with changing things in the temple ceremony. I agree this is truly the right way to go, to have and know the members thoughts and include them within their decision. It’s not weak, it’明智!而智慧永远是力量!

    While listening one thought kept popping up in my mind: How much Scientology is in the minds from the LDS leaders and elsewhere in the 教会.

    我的姐姐’科学主义的洗脑彻底毁了生命‘church’。一个在音乐,语言,口语和其他方面都很有才能的女孩,寻求一个改善自己的地方,并相信科学论告诉她的谎言…她的生活没有改善,反而彻底毁了!这发生在1978/79年,我失去了姐姐,失去了我最好的朋友。她已经失去了自由:在身心上都无法摆脱虐待。在2005年左右的某个时候,我遇到了一个男人,他是科学学的领导者。他解释了所发生的事情,并对此表示遗憾。只是知道曾经有过‘bad luck’在她的路上。但是从协助他的那个男孩的眼神中我就知道了,我’m afraid … the ‘bad luck’ is more common in Scientology 教会 than the leader would like to admit.

    由于我姐姐’对Scientology的热情我知道在Scientology课程之后有lds成员,他们的见证在我姐姐收到的杂志中分享。后来,我得知我的姐姐一直在犹豫不决地选择教堂和神学。太糟糕了,她选择错了,因为在那个年代,科学教派在洗脑方面是最糟糕的,而lds教堂在损害最小的名单上名列前茅。 (而且我在想我们会获得多少乐趣,如果她成为摩门教徒,我们会非常享受她的才华以及她深刻的思想和幽默感!)后来,我在其中一集中向约翰学习现在Scientology和LDS教堂一起成为榜首…领导破坏人们的榜单!我希望压力。纳尔逊将能够使教会脱离那个顶峰,这使我非常担心我在教会中所爱的所有人!

    如果它’s true, the leaders will listen to this podcast, I hope they also will read my comment. And I ask again: How much Scientology is in the minds from the leaders from The Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints. Please, President Nelson, Scientology is not teaching a Christlike attitude, but the 教会members attitude right now looks more like Scientology than Christlike. And just like the Scientology leader I wrote about, you might not be aware of the bad influence that brings ‘bad luck’ to your 教会 members, you might not admit it at first, not see it. But we are knocking at your door: telling you, we are missing the Christlike attitude, we’re not seeing it ! Instead we see peoples lifes hurt: like my sisters and mine, while Christ is easing our pain: outside the 教会 !

    尊敬的纳尔逊总统,我想请您看一下有多少位领导人参加了科学论课程,却失去了像基督一样的思维和感觉?
    我想问问您,在使徒七十年代和您身边的其他人中,有多少人影响了您的决心,参与了科学论的思考?

    It’s remarkable, as Sam Young says, that to lower the age for 值得 interviews, has come after he is fighting for the 安全 of the children. To me this shows there are different roads of thinking among the leaders, some whom think this is a good (???) thing, but also others hesitating …。并进行调查并询问成员….. show they are thinking about it and wondering if it is good or bad and hopefully the outcome will show how bad it is, so, they can support the right answer. But this attitude of enforcing 值得 interviews on kids at a younger age made me think of Scientology.

    最近几年,我学到了很多有关科学教义的知识。我在youtube上观看了有关像我姐姐一样受到伤害的采访,我从像我一样对S教堂持否定态度的(前)科学家的家庭成员那里了解到悲惨的生活,我的生活也被毁了。我了解了电子电表的工作原理。我以为姐姐只接受过关于她的生活的采访,但我知道她可能也谈论过她的家人。这向我解释了她和我们之间的鸿沟,她必须对她对我们所说的一切感到内,并将我们置于不安全的位置。一世’我知道我的生活中正在发生奇怪的事情,这些事情正在损害我,破坏我的生活,我想知道它是从哪里来的。还有那些闲聊并告诉我的谎言以及我不认识的人如何展示我的谎言’不知道,但他们的举止就像对我的了解,但他们却不知道’我不认识我,但似乎在某个地方,他们很早以前就获得了有关我的信息… and I wouldn’我姐姐感到惊讶’善良的心被滥用来收集有关她家人的信息并打扰我们(我),并惩罚我们对科学主义持消极态度,因为教会彻底毁了我姐姐’我的一生,我的另一个,最年长的妹妹’s life.

    科学学家认为儿童是在小身体中成长的人类。降低年龄只是开始较早地采访孩子 ‘mature’ life. But children are not 成熟 or grown ups ! Children need to play, learn from the faults they make and be safe from people abusing them, sexually, but also verbally.
    当我了解到在E-meter访谈中出了什么问题以及姐姐可能分享的信息时,我原谅了姐姐。我的态度可能伤害了她(我还是个孩子),学习,但也犯了错误,并且确定我可能伤害了她的感情,她必须分享它以摆脱困境,成为Clear和O.T.我理解她成为O.T.的雄心壮志。和清除。当我还是一个摩门教徒时,我肯定会进入天国,所以,我了解野心。但是,S教会无权滥用给予它的善意共享信息,以滥用它!直到今天!

    So President Nelson I want to ask you: what information really do you want the LDS 教会 to get from those interviews ?

    您是否要吓those那些孩子并使他们感到羞耻?从那一刻起也许不是塞纳利,但当孩子长大并想到它认为可以安全分享的东西时,却可以用来对付他/她…还是关于家庭… against the family ! How vulnerable do you want your members to be ? And with it: to live in fear and bondage, by things said as a young child. Do you really want it to feel guilty and be divided from the family ? Do you want to lay such responsibillity upon the child, later to be a member of your 教会, but mentally intimidated and broken ?

    拜托,您正在将船转向另一个方向,这很明显,我’m rejoicing in it ! But there are so many unseen dangers in the theory used in the 教会, we still have to pick up the veil and look under it, and the influence from Scientology might be one that is very damaging, and opposite from Christlike attitude.

    Children are no grownups, they need to be protected against questions not suitable for a Christlike 教会. A Christlike 教会 doesn’不要让孩子反对’s parents and families. A Christlike 教会 is not a dictatorial area, but a place where one can be safe, complete with the mistakes it makes, to learn from and so it can be 成熟 once growned up. Give the child a safe place to be. It’s God’的孩子,像那样珍贵!

    如果你不这样做’不知道如何取代父权制原则或科学论规则?专注或冥想或冥想态度治疗原则。用救恩计划的酱汁盖住它,您会感到自己的心在燃烧,您将看到上帝的子民早在世,并知道他们正准备来到尘世,使它成为一个更好的地方!您会看到每个上帝多么宝贵’s children is and how their 安全 needs to be and be protected, and given in a 教会 that has so much wisdom to share !

    //www.ahinternational.org/about/about-ahinternational/principles-of-attitudinal-healing

    和平,
    Mw。阿德里·德·琼
    荷兰人

  4. Women conducting 值得 interviews isn’t really going to improve the odds that children will not be harmed. As a forty-something LDS woman, my experience has been that most of the shaming of women in the 教会 is done by women, both young and old. And I KNOW there are many other woman who have also experienced this! The subject could be it’s own podcast!
    当我第一次开始参加学生单’加利福尼亚州的病房救助协会,我对每堂课的学习方式感到惊讶(烦恼),“dressing modestly”无论主题是什么,似乎都可以作为更好生活的解决方案。许多评论基本上都在说,作为女性,我们有责任通过穿什么来控制男人的思想和行为。这些是年轻女孩。
    在MTC中,一位女老师讲了一个故事,讲述了一个长者如何凝视一位姐妹传教士’她俯身的衬衫和随之而来的不纯洁的思想使他回家。因此,这位老太太教练开始羞辱女孩,或者更早地羞辱他们“Now sisters….you don’不想负责送老家。你做?不会’你觉得很糟糕吗?”如您所见,您不’不必披着外衣才能被其他LDS妇女判定为不道德。

    一位年轻的预先捐赠的救济协会的老师在一个星期天在家传授了她与3岁侄子的经历。她很热,所以她脱下毛衣,露出一件背心裙。男孩’对她裸露的肩膀的反应是“That’不漂亮。妈妈说’s not pretty”。从什么时候开始,一个无辜的3岁孩子甚至会注意到或关心肩膀?当他们有一位母亲审判其他妇女和老师时,她的儿子也要这样做。但是救济协会的老师并没有被打扰,事实上她很生气“这个男孩长大后会成为一个了不起的人!”但是我感到不安,就像那个可怜的孩子被扭曲了一样。我怀疑他以后可能会对女性产生困扰。
    在犹他州的证词会议上,一位分享他证词的年轻人解释了他一生中的生活真的很艰难,并揭示了他的麻烦的重要根源“女孩子们穿着….TANK TOPS!”当他哭泣时。我想知道是否是现在长大的那个男孩,哈哈。
    我想像那里有很多男孩,女孩也一样’真的一点都不好笑。它’不健康。除了裸露的肩膀和膝盖,生活中还有许多重要的事情要关注。为什么可以’这些身体部位无辜吗?一直都在隐藏它们,这很重–至少在我们心中。接下来我们该耻辱什么?我们的手肘?负担总是在女孩身上 ’他们有责任保持自我保护,以保护自己和他人免受腐败。
    看他们’re doing now.
    我的侄女今年夏天去了女童营,不允许穿任何短裤。只有卡普里斯。现在必须将泳裤穿在一件泳衣上。真?一件泳衣已经不够温和了,现在女孩们必须穿两件泳衣吗?为什么?它’s like we’再倒退。那不是’当我在《年轻女性》中时,这是如此严格。我们甚至穿着无袖衫,什么也没想到。我们保持冷静,玩得很开心。我们专注于真正重要的事情。我敢打赌,这些年轻人在营地的游泳裤上露胸部。双重标准??在爱达荷州BYU,女孩子禁止穿短裤,长裤甚至绑腿。也许男人可能会制定这些规则,但是LDS女人确实可以对其他女人实施谦虚/道德。

    不仅在LDS女性身上,甚至在人体模特上。可不是闹着玩的。

    在一家曾经是ZCMI的百货公司工作时,我受到一个年轻母亲的抱怨,因为我们的模特穿着文胸和内裤,这在小男孩部门可以看到。她似乎认为它是故意放置在那里,以腐败的年轻男孩–尤其是她的儿子(即使她实际上站在亲密的服装部门。)她希望我将其删除,当我说我无法移动它时,她想找一个经理。…等了15分钟,一个人来听她说,如果不删除,她将不再在那里购物。现在’代表真理和公义。对?现在,她的儿子永远不会忘记他母亲没有的无头模特 ’不想让他看一眼。甚至可能想知道他还有什么其他胸罩和内裤的东西’不应该看。

    好,再说一次两位老太太送给我和我的同事,当时我们正穿着一个有品味的假日睡衣打扮的模特,看起来像圣诞老人的西装,红色,白色,气喘吁吁。”I hope you’再把它放在壁橱里!”我的同事笑着说“We don’要订购它们,它们是从洛杉矶寄出的” .
    “Well that’s not for Utah!”他们说。然后继续“现在你愿意为丈夫穿吗?当他对你有健康的感觉时,你会穿吗?” They just shook their heads. 那 hussy mannequin. Trying to corrupt her own husband. She should feel terrible.

    是啊….I don’不想让任何人采访我8-11岁的孩子。它’s not necessary. Asking baptism concepts is fine, but 值得? Young children are already worthy of God’的爱与接受,以及我们必须付出的一切。让什么’s天真留白。我们只需要放任他们。

  5. (1)当我五岁时,我在病房里遭到一个女孩的性虐待–谁每周整整一个礼拜–她每周都会对我进行性虐待和身体折磨。女性也会遭受虐待。我现在已经快46岁了,我从未与女人有过亲密的关系,而且我是一个受过良好教育,运动,国际化的男性,一个男人。

    (2)我以压倒性的多数赞成在教会内对侵入式访谈的保护性修改/删除,我认为所有小组成员也都支持。然而,我确实认为,罗杰·亨德里克斯(Roger Hendrix)在他个人的亲教会的观点上确实是一个人(而且我不知道有这样的性格的人愿意参加这次讨论),而且罗杰’唯一的面板陈述/要求以回应他的p.o.v.被解雇到最后,我对此感到失望。

    (3)感谢您的讨论。我爱你们。爱爱❤

  6. 不就是不。绝对不。其背后的原因是如此透明,甚至弟兄们也可以’找不到隐藏它们的方法。他们只是试图用语义来伪装他们’re up to here. It’会让那些谁放心’让我如此害怕“losing”他们的孩子犯罪“world”;抓住他们,让他们恐惧,除了认可的权威之外,别无他法。特别是自己的声音。绝对希望他们不信任自己的声音。它’ll be called “safety” and “spiritual guidance”,影响网的这种收紧,但实际上是一个网。早点抓住他们。

    If the 教会 really holds the deepest truths, if it really offers joy, growth, and true freedom, why does it take such cautious maneuvers to ensure continued involvement? If what the 教会 offers is so patently satisfying, why cannot young people explore freely, and discover that for themselves? Why cannot the leaders feel more confident that the 教会 will attract their loyalty through its own merits, rather than through carefully curated experiences and meticulous control of information?

    误解,沟通错误和无意中造成伤害的可能性非常大。我想起了我14岁时参加的一次股份舞访谈,当时主教委婉地问我是否“sweet and pure”。他的问题使我感到困惑。我不知道他是在问我关于我(不存在)的性生活。我以为他在问我我是否是迪士尼活着的公主,“sweet and pure”足以让鸟儿下车,英俊的王子也可以唱歌。害羞地蠕动着,我觉得自己不是,我紧张地咯咯笑着。他的举止从善良的父爱转为严厉的地方法官,“看到你从现在开始”,他吠叫着,就这样,采访结束了,我们俩都对实际发生的事情一无所知。那是40年前,但是主教现在没有比以前更有效的训练。它’傲慢的傲慢态度使他们有责任对那些“worthiness”首先应该永远不会有问题。

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