评论 56

  1. 约翰,我’米的循环。我想参加这些活动,但是直到您发布录音后再听不到。我每天都会在这个网站上查看新闻和故事(’绝不是新闻)。您在哪里发布有关这些事件的信息?我可以建议您将其发布在此网站上,添加事件日历或其他内容。一世’我很失望地错过了这些过去的事件(凯特·凯利,杰里米·伦纳尔和大麻辩论)。谢谢。

    1. I left behind Mormonism voluntarily in 1995, I have noticed since then that the church creates an 不可渗透的屏障 leaving members disconnected from the physical world. The exception being the pursuit of money. During 2012 I went to Saint George, Utah to help an old friend 与 his mining activities. I even attended the local ward and 与in a few Sunday the once friendly people became very cold and I felt extremely uncomfortable. They spewed such hatred for Obama, and once finding out I was from San Francisco and an ex-Mormon it became a little intense. I was so glad to get out of there. The old friend I stayed 与 had a marriage on the rocks, everywhere I looked I saw dysfunction. My friends wife was taking copious amounts of sedatives and anti-depressants. I saw a culture on the rocks, held together by their social frayed fabric and devotion to an odd blend of Old Testament rules and a geriatric hierarchy..

  2. Oh, my gosh do I relate to everything 凯特 said! Coming from Fundamentalist Mormonism, there were so many young 女人 who shared that they felt raped when they were first and later married. . . I think that is why there is so much sexual abuse. Too much ignorance and not enough talk and education! Thanks for all you shared 凯特!

  3. I listened to the entire interview today, and thanks 约翰, for another great one. 凯特, congrats on the wonderful work that you’re engaged in, but more importantly, for being an inspiration to those of us who are moving out of (or considering it) church culture and activity. You have navigated your way to a new tribe, new relationship, new culture, and meaningful work!! And 与out guile or shame.

  4. This interview was AMAZING! It was so great to hear 凯特 talk about her life after and all the advocacy she’s doing 与 Planned Parenthood. I remember, after transitioning out of Mormonism I discovered how NOT of the devil PP was, but instead how amazing it and other family planning services were. As an older single Mormon who never had sex because I was never married, going to a place that was completely non-judgmental, and educational was amazing.

    In conjunction 与 what 凯特 said about how many ex-Mo’s struggle 与 things that many learned back in their teens and twenties — I found that being an adult, and having people who understood my knowledge holes and could support me 与out judgement were how I learned to navigate my world into things that are completely normal to others, like alcohol and coffee. I had a friend who was a bartender that taught me about alcohol, and the different tastes, and started 与 light “soda”如葡萄酒和冰沙般的鸡尾酒。而且因为我’在成年人中,我可以对何时喝酒做出明智的决定。我发现,因为我’我不使用酒来参加聚会或叛乱,我可以在社交场合享受它’m out 与 friends, or have a glass of wine at home once in a while after a long day at work. And for coffee, I had a good co-worker friend show me how to make coffee in a coffee maker — again, 与out any judgement. He knew my background, so when I admitted that 我没有’他不知道怎么为办公室做咖啡,只是给我看了。太好了。

    When it came to the world of 输入ing sex as an adult I decided to work 与 a sex therapist, and actually used a sex surrogate partner (since 我没有’没有任何严重的关系,并且是处女)。以一种实用的方式学习性教育是一次了不起的经历–在这里,我可以练习如何给予和拒绝同意,如何交流我的需求和期望以及了解我的身体在安全的性环境中的工作方式。 (我实际上写了一个完整的博客,并接受了采访— there aren’有很多使用性代孕的妇女。如果有人对阅读我的故事感兴趣,可以访问thewakingtigress.com。性替代可能并不适合大多数人,而是要接受有关性的工作方式,亲密经历的教育(即使他们不这样做)。’导致完全性交),不仅需要摩尔门斯人和前摩’是为了我们整个社会。

    Thanks 凯特 and John for giving the space to have such an open and honest discussion about all of these things! Thank you, thank you!

  5. Those men who believed you enough of a threat to cast you out, 凯特, have revealed themselves to be neither insightful nor inspired. You were extraordinary as a Mormon in daring to propose that the president actually be prophetic. Now as a post Mormon you’我们已经成长为自然力量,以您的指控者永远不会拥有的方式使世界变得更加美好。值得注意的是,红色长毛绒座椅上的西装以为是在把您扔掉,但是扔掉的可能是他们有可能影响您或使您倾向于他们的思维方式。那是他们的损失!


  6. Another great interview, John. 凯特’接下来的旅程很有趣,我感谢她愿意分享好与坏。它’很难改变您的世界观,并完全移出舒适区,但是在观察和批评您的一举一动时尝试做这样的事情需要一定的毅力,并非每个人都能找到自己。

    如果你’d pass a message on to 凯特 (I don’t know if she’会看到这一点),除非将来她应该将多伙伴关系称为非一夫一妻制’专门谈论多妻制。一夫多妻制是非一夫一妻制伞的一部分,它包括许多类型的开放关系。

  7. 凯特, you are deightful, brilliant, a great communicator and leader.


    Religious male hierarchies, historically and today, make 女人 subservient to males and to the male hierarchy. They also eliminate their thoughtful, creative, critical thinkers. Male hierarchies of both Muslims and Mormons do this.


    Pleasantly surprized that you are working for Planned Parenthood. Planned Parenthood is one of the best and most needed organizations in the country. Giving 女人 control over their bodies, especially poor 女人, is so very important.

    一个女人被迫要生一个孩子 ’照顾好她,关上门,熄灭她的灯,谴责她过着贫穷的生活。此外,它也谴责她的家庭和她所属的国家贫穷。 (想想穆斯林大军。)因此,计划生育不用为纳税人花钱,而是为纳税人节省了很多钱。计划生育是非常必要的,应该将其设置为政府部门。

      1. 德克萨斯州陪审团调查计划生育的发现是,他们’T从事任何可行的非法或不道德行为。


        而且,在这里,您仍然在有意或无意的情况下,继续对计划生育计划党(Planned Parenthood)进行指责,因为该计划因涂有偏见和欺骗性的尝试而受到委屈。

  8. 绝对喜欢这次采访和经过深思熟虑的讨论,这些讨论涉及与过渡和张贴摩门教徒有关的许多重要主题。作为一名36岁的医生,已婚并育有孩子,在过去的几年中与我的妻子完全脱离了教堂,我听了数百个摩尔门故事播客。在信仰转变的不同阶段,有许多人对我具有启发性并与之相关,并且,我仍然非常感谢您约翰和凯特所做的并将继续做的工作。它’从像你们这样经历过成人信仰过渡经历的人们那里,我听到了关于这些问题的成熟而明智的观点,确实非常有帮助,尽管他们比我必须公开和勇敢得多,但他们的经历却和我一样。在过渡过程中的很多时候,我几乎没有人可以与我讨论和处理我当时正在处理的信息或想法,但常常觉得我正在与约翰·德林,凯特·凯利,卡德伍德(Calderwoods),林赛·汉森公园(Lindsey Hansen Park)等。通过所有这些工作非常有价值“with”像你这样的伟大人物像凯特一样,我只是不’想不到上帝或什么’不再是真的,而是更多地关心那些影响我自己和家人的真实问题’s and patients’真实,真实的经历。我一直在思考如何教我的孩子们沿着我曾经走过的路走’不能参加我的正统教养。它’它的帮助如此之大,以至于摩门教徒的故事已发展成为一个与基础充分,有原则,坚定的后摩门教徒有关的明智,深思熟虑的讨论场所。我衷心感谢你们两个,您所做的一切,您是谁和代表什么。

  9. 约翰,我 wish you would have pressed 凯特 harder on most/any of her positions. What about her stance that pro-life advocates are simply “anthropomorphizing” a fetus? It sounds quick and clever, but, seriously, just think about that response for a second. “Anthropomorphism,” according to google means “the attribution of *human* characteristics or behavior to a god, animal, or object.” A “human” (or homo sapien) is a scientific term. “人性化” aren’抽象概念;它们在科学上是可证明的。胎儿不仅已经具有*所有*科学上必不可少的“人类”特征,而且甚至是受精卵也是如此。科学家甚至伦理学家都没有对此进行辩论,是否赞成选择。支持选择的生物伦理学家彼得·辛格(Peter Singer)在他的《实践伦理学》一书中写道:“毫无疑问,从人类存在的第一刻起,人类精子和卵子就诞生了一个胚胎。

    To “anthropomorphize” something that is already a scientifically demonstrable human being, by definition, makes absolutely zero sense. Yet, it was applauded as some pithy hook in this interview. Why? You used to push guests to qualify their views 与 something other than purely abstract notions detached from demonstrable scientific facts.


    “You know what, like, 女人’s rights is more important to me than social belonging, and community, and family, and everything I’ve ever known, and the entire way I’ve constructed my entire life.” -Kate 凯莉.

    She was referring to her excommunication, so I’m trying to not read into this too heavily, but, it’s just, wow. Is this a belief that could honestly fit into any kind of healthy worldview or life experience? I’m not sure. But, I’m hoping to be proven wrong. Either way, I really wish 凯特 the best in her life journey.

    1. 我喜欢这篇文章,尽管我可以’t blame John for not wanting to get in a debate about abortion 与 凯特 凯莉. I came away from this interview thinking how complex the topic of abortion is and how silly it is to be staunchly anti-abortion, considering the challenges that 女人 face 与 unwanted pregnancies. However, I felt that 凯特 really ignored issues of sanctity of life and 休闲的 sex and instead kept bringing up “women’s rights” and “men shouldn’t tell 女人 what to do 与 their bodies”, when this is also a societal issue. It does seem the best current practical solution is the educational and contraceptive services that Plan Parenthood is providing and which 凯特 is advocating.

    2. I appreciate what you have mentioned. I, too, noted some things for which I would like clarification. For instance, giving the example of ripping off a Band-Aid, 凯特 said that she was able to free herself from the church immediately. Why then, did she appeal her excommunication six months later? Also, if she has no animosity toward the church, why would she want “reversibility”从而给她机会宣扬人们离开教会的理由吗?
      关于堕胎,我想您很好地说明了为什么使用该术语“anthropomorphize”可能不合适。我还要指出,事实不应该流产’t receive such serious attention since colonoscopies are responsible for more deaths than abortion is specious reasoning. If one were to consider the fetus to be a living human, then there is literally no way an abortion can happen 与out a death. Additionally, there is mental health literature that suggests that 女人 are at a heightened risk for mood disorders and depression after an abortion. The risk of future miscarriage also increases 与 each abortion. Thus, the ethical quandary and the potential implications of having the procedure seem like it merits serious consideration regardless if colonoscopies are related to more deaths.

      1. 凯特 did not say that she was able to free herself from the church immediately. She said her transition was easier than it was for people who take years & years & years &困扰很长一段时间。

        There is NOT mental health literature that suggests that 女人 are at a heightened risk for mood disorders and depression after an abortion. In fact, most credible science says that most 女人 are not negatively impacted by terminating a pregnancy. Also, it’重要的是要考虑会对他们产生负面影响的事物…。 IE对常见医疗程序的不必要社会污名化。

        The risk of future miscarriage DOES NOT increase 与 each abortion. Stop spouting random ideas you heard on pro-life blogs or Rush Limbaugh as science.

        1. 当她说诸如“直到我去之前,我都是g子’t and then I was out” or “这是一个很干净的休息” it implied to me that she transitioned not only easily, but also quickly. 如果你 want to interpret it otherwise, I am not interested in arguing 与 you.

          The co-varying variables and mediating factors related to abortion outcomes are notoriously difficult to parse out in the medical literature. I am not a pro-life advocate, I just disagreed 与 凯特 that abortion should be taken no more seriously than other medical procedures.


          Sun Y,Che,Y.,Gao E.,Olsen,J.,&Zhou,W.(2003年)。导致流产和随后流产的风险。国际流行病学杂志,32(3),449-454。


          北卡罗来纳州麦卡诺奇(Maconochie),体育馆(Doyle),普里尔(Prior),&Simmons,R.(2007年)。一项基于英国人群的病例对照研究得出的孕早期流产的危险因素。 BJOG:国际产科学杂志&妇科学,114(2),170-186。

          Levin,A.A.,Schoenbaum,S.C.,Monson,R.R.,Stubblefield,P.G.,& Ryan, K. J. (1980). Association of induced abortion 与 subsequent pregnancy loss. JAMA, 243(24), 2495-2499.


          Hiersch,L.,Ashwal,E.,Aviram,A.,Rayman,S.,Wiznitzer,A.,& Yogev, Y. (2015). The association between previous single first trimester abortion and pregnancy outcome in nulliparous 女人. The Journal of Maternal-Fetal &新生儿医学,1-5。


          Broen,A.,Moum,T.,Bødtker,A.,&埃克伯格,Ø。 (2005)。流产和人工流产后的心理健康过程:一项为期五年的纵向随访研究。 BMC药物,3(1),1。

          Thorp Jr,J.M.,Hartmann,K.E.,&Shadigian,E.(2003)。人工流产对身体和心理的长期健康影响:证据审查。产科的&妇科调查,58(1),67-79。


          Mota,N.P.(2010)。在全国代表性的样本中,流产,精神障碍和自杀行为之间的关联。 《加拿大精神病学杂志》 55(4),239。


          M. Curley,&约翰斯顿(2013)。大学生流产后心理困扰的特征和严重性。行为健康服务杂志&研究,40(3),279-293。


          Cougle,J.R.,Reardon,D.C.,& Coleman, P. K. (2003). Depression associated 与 abortion and childbirth: a long-term analysis of the NLSY cohort. Medical Science Monitor, 9(4), CR105-CR112.

          I am not saying that all studies have found these same conclusions and I am certainly not saying that all 女人 will have these outcomes. All I am saying is that we do not definitively understand all of the side effects of abortion and, thus, it should rightly be treated as a serious decision.

          1. Thank you for your informed comment and for backing it up 与 evidence. I appreciate that you took the time to do so. Honestly, I probably don’没有时间或倾向阅读所有这些内容(特别是因为许多内容都在付费专栏后面),但是您’给了我很多思考的机会。

  10. 感谢您告知我们您的出色工作’ve been doing lately, 凯特. So much for the apparent hopes of the LDS GAs that maybe you would quietly disappear.

    And 约翰,我 especially liked your little dissertation on how you would have a have a healthy conversation about pornography 与 a hypothetical son.

    I also agree 与 what 安妮 hinted at —LDS教会曾经为你们俩所做的最好的事情可能就是将您逐出教会。当时可能并不有趣,但是您’愿意做自己真正相信的事情,而你不做’不必再回答他们了(以防万一我没有’t曾在过去克服技术难题的帖子中说过这一点)。

    EDiL13(耶洛因’s Daughter in Law)

  11. 约翰,很喜欢教堂里有关一夫多妻制的谈话,我了解到你’再做一夫一妻制。如果你没有’t看到LDSSexuality论坛,半隐藏的线程“swinging”超过90页,比整个论坛上的任何其他主题长很多倍。我还写了一个博客,我以前叫MormonSwingers,但后来改成了“Swingers-in-love” because 我没有’不想把教堂从标题拖进去。它’s在swingers-in-love.blogspot.com中。您’re absolutely right about the 摇摆的 rates in the church. It’很大!刚进入Craigslist,您’ll see.

  12. I am eager to listen to the podcast when I have some time. I am really curious as to whether 凯特 is still involved 与 Ordain 女装. It sounds like many of her views have diverged even more from the LDS church so I wonder whether “reforming”教会对她真的很重要。

      1. I just finished listening. It does indeed seem as if she has given up on reform. She has taken a back seat in ordain 女人 and has really diverged in many ways from the church since she left. Like she says, there really aren’在LDS教会中,进行任何游说改变的途径。

  13. 凯特 凯莉 is a lawyer. Studied and worked in law. The strangest statement I’在过去的一年里,尤其是从律师那里听到的消息:“死于结肠镜检查的人多于堕胎”。让我发笑和思考“I didn’只是听到我说的吗?”

    1. 结肠镜检查导致“严重的医疗并发症”根据2006年《内科学年鉴》的报告,每千名患者中就有五分之二。

      1. 吉尔,死亡会被视为医疗并发症吗? 100%的堕胎导致一场流产。这是可证明的科学。一世’我不是说堕胎永远是没有道理的。我相信终止个人生活可以在社会中占有一席之地。但是,从西方伦理学的观点或西方医学的观点来看,堕胎与结肠镜检查的整个比较,就好像它们在类型上是严格等同的,是毫无根据的。

  14. While there are many things that I can say I agree 与 凯特 Kelley on, her stance on abortion and her blithe disregard for pro-life views trouble me. Her last response to the gentleman who posed the tax question to her was so animated, that I could almost feel her spitting nails through my speakers! Not to mention that it also sounded rehearsed and conditioned. She basically resorted to name-calling. I wonder if this is part of her conditioning from Mormonism where they just call people names (like apostate) who disagree 与 them. I find her rationalizations on abortion akin to how Mormon apologists argue (smoke and mirrors, changing the subject, playing 与 semantics). I was particularly angered by her comment on the anthropomorphism of fetuses. 那 was completely ridiculous! Since I am someone who has dealt firsthand 与 how this can affect people, I feel confident in saying that 凯特 Kelley has a real disconnect 与 people who have really good reasons for believing abortion to be wrong. 如果你’约翰·德林(John Dehlin),请再读一遍,我想挑战您邀请我在您的节目中对此进行解释。其实我敢! --

  15. 约翰,我为你的避难所鼓掌’还没决定喝酒。我经常听到有关前摩门教徒的故事 ’ first experience 与 alcohol as it is told 与 some sense of liberation. I do not, however, hear about these same individuals first experience smoking a cigarette. It stands to reason that if someone has made it into their 30s or 40s 与out smoking, it seems nonsensical to start now. Why, then, wouldn’同样的想法也适用于饮酒吗?尽管可以将酒精视为一种通过的仪式,但它与许多身体和社会伤害有关,并且是全世界范围内死亡的主要原因之一。如果您想从摩门教成长中保留一件事,那么戒酒似乎是一个不错的选择。

  16. 这次采访涉及两件事,我认为值得专门针对播客。首先是与您的孩子谈论性。您开始了一场精彩的讨论,而我 ’d like to hear more. Second is how church doctrine/culture influences 女人’s body image issues. I know that those issues are a challenge for 女人 everywhere in the western world, but I’m glad to hear I’当我访问犹他州时,我不是唯一注意到整形外科广告牌怪异现象的人。我想知道是否有社会科学家或其他研究人员试图弄清楚’s going on.

  17. 我终于到处观看了这个精彩的采访。我可以在许多层面上建立联系,但是特别是对我而言,这是很有意义的。

    凯特, you spoke about having a panic attack and how you never understood mental health issues before that. It is very true 您可以’t understand that kind of thing 与out experiencing it. I’对不起,您必须体验一下,但是我’非常感谢您分享。人们不易理解不可见的疾病,而受苦者则难以应对。关于饮食失调的问题– though you hadn’自己经历过– I felt you spoke compassionately and 与 sincere sympathy. As a survivor, I felt understood. It’s unfortunate the impossible standards of perfection to which 女人 are held.

    您还提到了要成为自己真是累人“the only one”在某些问题上大声疾呼。我为您和您所有人鼓掌’已经做到了,但是有些人对棘手的问题持坦率的坦率态度,但是不要’没有展示它们的平台。当然,还有其他一些人可能更普遍,但是也有一些鲜为人知的人希望对话,但是他们的听众却很小,并且/或者不感兴趣。

    On a minor scale, I can relate. I occasionally blog about my progress 与 mental health issues. Often friends, extended family and strangers will message me, saying they have experienced similar things. While it is frustrating everyone doesn’感到自己无法公开讨论棘手的话题,我感到他或她沉默的原因太多,而且我个人也无法批评。我花了很多挫败感,心痛和精神错乱才终于揭露了– in my opinion –我对摩门教的教养在很大程度上加剧了这种情况。在一个幻想的世界中,我很乐意接受教育,启发和启发他人的工作,但是我也可以想象,这种责任感很重。我希望当您成为少数在此类问题上发表演讲的公众感到沮丧时,您知道很多人希望这样做,并且您确实有为其他人这样做的独特地位(无论’幸运与否’s true). You mentioned people think they have an invitation to critique you and I want to iterate that is not my intention. You do have a huge weight to bear and you carry it 与 grace. Today you may be one of the few speaking out, but I believe you have opened the door for many to follow. Be patient, we’re coming. 😉



  18. 我没有’还没有机会收听播客。我很困惑地读到她离婚了。她的丈夫在整个苦难中都给予了大力支持。


    1. 她没有’不能真正解释离婚。她读了一首诗,写的是关于有时您只是知道自己需要改变的诗。明确地说,她只是对前任说了些好话。她不是’离婚在他身上。

  19. Great interview kate and jon, l would love to see you have a latest interview 与 Grant Palmer Sandra Tanner and Jon Hamer aswell as other post Mormon people and see where their lives have taken them and talk more about the church history difficulties, please consider this as possible, thanks

  20. 对于那个为自己的税金而愤怒的人‘recreational’流产,我想问问他如何看待他为接受癌症治疗的人准备的税金?‘recreationally’熏制。还是他的税金用于没有足够收入来抚养母亲的母亲所生孩子的食物/庇护所/教育?我不再相信耶稣,但我喜欢他的话“He who is 与out sin cast the first stone.” Healthcare is a basic need and should not be subject to laws of judgement or bottom-line-profit driven economic models. 那 said I would like to hear 凯特 address the issue of whether or not a fetus should be considered human enough to call abortion murder, or at least why she may not consider this question relevant to the discussion. This question, along 与 the rights a woman has over the governance of her own body, is fundamental to the issue and should be addressed in both humanistic and scientific terms. I am actively pro-choice but I still believe that as sentient beings we need to show our humanity by giving even the potential of life a respectful discussion.

  21. 好一集。饮料真有趣!您一定不能是犹他州的摩门教徒,或者至少不是80年代长大的人。我会说我的大多数朋友–and 我没有’甚至没有一个人’t Mormon–至少尝试喝酒和吸烟。无论如何,很高兴你没有’最终陷入困境。而且,我和我的朋友经常跳过神学院去咖啡馆喝杯咖啡–Mormon bad!

  22. 还有其他过程,需要在同意和过程之间等待一段时间。输卵管杀菌&如果您有州政府资助的保险,我所在州的子宫切除术需要等待30天。延迟期限要求通常不会威胁生命。这不仅仅是“负面污蔑该程序”的一种方式。一些政客和有宗教信仰的人可能有这种动机,但也应将其视为保护妇女的一种方式。患者可能成为医生,科学家等人自身利益的受害者。当然,没有很多汽车需要等待时间来购买汽车,因此您可以真正考虑一下。我们经常做出遗憾的决定。将人工流产与进行结肠镜检查相比较是危险的。对于参加计划生育计划的妇女来说,如果这是对“选择权”进行“教育”的一部分,我感到很难过。

    I am pro-choice because I recognize as 凯特 says that 女人 need access to these services. 女装 can be in a terrible situation no matter the choice: carrying the baby has a consequence, giving up a baby has a consequence and having a termination of pregnancy has a consequence. People on all sides should respect that it is a difficult position and THAT is why we should respect a woman’s right to choose.

    I do agree that access to quality contraception such as long acting reversible contraception is an important element in alleviating poverty, empowering 女人 and protecting children. It is true that pro-choice people don’t think that abortion is the greatest thing ever. Everyone can get onboard 与 the idea that unwanted pregnancy is not a good thing. It would be great if we lived in a world where all children are wanted. I salute Planned Parenthood for, albeit like all of us imperfectly, working toward that goal.

    1. 只是想知道您所在的州是否还需要30天等待输精管结扎术,如果患者拥有州政府资助的保险。

  23. I guess the question I have for 约翰·德林 is shall we expect more of these types of ideological podcasts. It seems that people on the fringes of Mormonism or Mormons in faith transitions are being pigeonholed 与 feminists or liberals. They’大量幻想破灭的保守派摩门教徒在那里。

      1. 让参议员马克·马德森(Mark Madsen)参加播客,讨论他为使医学MJ合法化所做的努力,是否有运气?我知道您正在尝试与FB接触。

  24. 约翰,
    我是您播客的相当新的收听者,但多年来一直不是LDS教会的信徒。我最近开始研究教堂的历史,以帮助解决我过去遇到的一些问题,但是’t ready to address until now. Something that 凯特 said in her interview really surprised me, and I don’在网上找不到任何地方进行备份。她说,当她是摩门教徒时,她会在救济学会的课程中随意讲几句话,以提高对事实的认识。然后她说“艾玛·史密斯(Emma Smith)的伟大之处在于她是约瑟夫·史密斯(Joseph Smith)和杨百翰(Brigham Young)’s wife”,然后她说这是一个 “随机事实,随机事实”。当她这么说时,我的下巴掉了下来,我开始尝试研究它,但是我’m not able to find anything on it. Was 凯特 joking about this, or is this true? She said this at about 2:10 on the interview. I would really appreciate a response or explanation of why she said this if it wasn’是真的,还是她只是误会了?也许这是真的,而且’到目前为止已经埋在互联网上’s that I just can’t find it.

    1. 我也明白了。也许她的意思是Eliza R. Snow?她嫁给了约瑟夫·史密斯和杨百翰。
      Or the 7 or so other 女人 that were married to both of them perhaps??

  25. 凯特 and 约翰,



    “Dad, if they excommunicate 约翰·德林 like they did 凯特 凯莉, I will be so mad!”

    I had no idea that my seminary going, tbm son knew who 约翰·德林 and 凯特 凯莉 were, let alone what they represent. At the root of his disgust, is his commitment to human rights and the church’s obvious flagrant mistreatment of 女人 and the LGBT community.
    I wanted to share this anecdote 与 you both, as an illustration for how far your activism and work reaches. 海事组织– The biggest danger to the church is not the historical baggage, Orwell taught us in his book ‘1984’ that this can easily be fixed. The biggest danger to the church is its members thinking and acting as agents to their own moral compass (both of which you two symbolize). From the outside looking in—IMO –这就是为什么你们两个都被逐出教会的原因—您犯了摩门教徒最严重的两个罪过—You advocate “freedom of thought” and “freedom of expression” 与in the context of the Church or maybe better stated “freedom from oppression”. It is sad to say it, but the glue that holds the contemporary Mormon Church together is the glue of ‘oppression’—对思想的压迫和按照自己的道德指南行事的压迫。

    凯特—我有一个16岁的女儿—she is very smart, very disciplined, very driven, very aware and vocal about geopolitical issues and does not put up 与 any kind of sexism or misogyny. As 您可以 attest, this does not bode well for a woman in the Mormon Church. I am watching her become conflicted and frustrated. What I see occurring is that she is being told again and again that the measure of her creation is to become the submissive eternal property of a Mormon man. My wife and her mother, her maternal grandmother, her aunts and church young 女人 leaders all drink this Kool-aid and parrot it as her destiny at every chance—所有这些女性,在她的影响力圈中,都将她的真实存在等同于一个可以在某个时候自我纠正的阶段。作为她的父亲,我致力于抵抗对她真实自我的压制。您对我有什么建议可以帮助我女儿吗?有什么书可以推荐给她读吗?您是她的理想榜样!!!感谢您公开站起来,您正在以多种积极方式帮助许多人。

  26. 凯特, there is a difference between change for growth’的缘故,并失去对自己的感觉。流产?堕胎不尊重妇女和儿童。婚姻之外的性行为将爱变成纯粹的身体释放。在大学女性中进行的研究表明,这些年轻女性对服务于他们认识的男性和女性大量饮酒的女性施加了巨大压力,因为这使她们对自己的感觉有所提高。这不是一个尊重妇女的社会’的性,尊严或选择权。这是一个教导他们他们无法控制自己身体的社会。最好的社会要求其成员自我控制,以保护所有人,包括年轻人,弱势群体以及患有精神疾病和精神残疾的人。实行自我约束是成年的标志。自我放纵是未成熟和精神病患者的标志。
    The commandments taught you in the LDS Church protected you during your youth, from hard to stop habits such as smoking. They protected you from the guilt felt by those who drank too much one night and then injured or killed someone in a car accident. They prevented you from having a child 与 someone you were not committed to, 与 all the accompanying pain for both parent and child.
    I admired your desire to expand the power and usefulness of LDS 女人 even though I did not agree 与 the methods you chose.

  27. You are too good a woman and leader of 女人 to go down this path. 流产 is a denial of 女人’s rights, a means men applaud as a way to exploit 女人 sexually 与out consequence to themselves. We need you back as a true champion of 女人.

    1. I can no longer support 凯特 凯莉 or the causes she supports. I was a feminist before 凯特 was born. I still am. Feminists support 女人 and men and children. They want increased power and visibility to increase their ability to fight evil and promote good. I do not see how using a public platform to mock the teachings of your youth about using alcohol makes you free. 凯特’的评论让我觉得她不成熟,就像一个十几岁的少年向她的成年人宣告,“you can’t make me do that.”
      And those comments about assigning human characteristics to the unborn were despicable. Certainly the life of a developing child, soon to be born 与 all the promise of mortality, deserves to be described correctly and protected accordingly.
      凯特, I like you but I cannot follow down the paths you are now on. I do not see them as feminist. I do not see them as good or loving or kind.

  28. 我想推荐教孩子性行为的书。“It’s Not The Stork”另一本由同一作者撰写,则是与性有关的书籍,由儿科医生撰写,并可以根据年龄的适合性进行选择。我也喜欢“您从未希望孩子了解性生活的一切(但害怕他们’d ask)”由儿科医生撰写。关于预防性虐待:“No Means No” and “I Said No”有两本很棒的图画书,可以帮助孩子们说不。并且“身体安全教育:父母’s保护儿童免受性虐待的指南”. Vital and especially 与out comprehensive sex-education in most states.

  29. 凯特, you are amazing and I love you. 约翰, thank you for supporting her and giving her a platform to share such an awesome interview.


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